[CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 34, Issue 11


Example: Framebuilders:Masi

Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 06:43:46 -0700
From: "Curtis Moran" <cmoran@accoes.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 34, Issue 11

Furnace Creek 508 This weekend is the 508 mile race across the Calif. desert. presented by Adventure Corps. I am drawing on the good karma of my fellow listers as a rookie participant. I will be riding my 1972 Schwinn Paramount which I bought new for my 21st birthday and my 1978 Schwinn Paramount which is a recent acquisition. I am sure that a huge percentage of the best bikes that will ever be built have already been built prior to 1983. Please think of me Sunday and Monday morning when I will be struggling to finish within the 48 hour time limit. Thanks, Curly Moran Lancaster, CA
>>> classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org 10/05/05 11:55AM >>> Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

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CR

Today's Topics:

1. RE: John Crump Oldbrit on Motor Paced Racing (Toni Theilmeier) 2. RE: Bluemels timeline question (neil foddering) 3. FS Rauler 56 c-t, no not that one! (Mark Poore) 4. Re: Freeing up seized spoke nipples? (John Thompson) 5. Question about Nuovo Record brake q/r levers 6. Re: Sort of a follow up: Last year for Nuovo Record? 7. Re: Bluemels timeline question (Phil Sieg) 8. Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Quotes (Gilbert Anderson) 9. Re: Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Quotes (Chuck Schmidt) 10. Re: Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Quotes (sam lingo) 11. Interesting Ebay Brit Frames (Michael Butler)

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Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:53:35 +0200 From: Toni Theilmeier <toni.theilmeier@t-online.de> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]RE: John Crump Oldbrit on Motor Paced Racing Message-ID: <BFCEF86D-356C-11DA-A2E1-0050E49E894D@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Precedence: list Message: 1

Dear John (if this isn t your real name, sorry), in your recent post to CR, you quote an article in The Boneshaker # 168, p. 50. You state that the situation in the thirties is described there. Sorry to correct you, but it s the 1900s and 1910s that are looked at. I should know, I m the author. My real article on paced track racing was in TB # 158, pp 18-24.

Until the thirties, the situation on the track and in the frame building shops had changed dramatically, and I m afraid you can t glean any information from my pieces regarding the frame(s) under recent scrutiny on this list.

Besides, Would I dare to describe track racing during the thirties and,

especially, the fifties? Not as long as Ted Ernst and all the other eyewitnesses are around I wouldn t. 90 or 100 years ago is much safer

;-)

Regards, Toni Theilmeier, Belm, Germany.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:46:00 +0000 From: "neil foddering" <neilfoddering@hotmail.com> To: triodelover@comcast.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]Bluemels timeline question Message-ID: <BAY101-F33353CCA1FF26496CA6E19BF820@phx.gbl> In-Reply-To: <43430ACA.3060602@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2

Hi Phil,

The 1954/5 Hobdays Cycle Accessories Catalogue lists the following Bluemels mudguards in cellluloid (no mention of plastic):

Lightweight Featherweight Noweight Club Special (Listed as "New", and not appearing in the 1952/3 catalogue. I don't have the 1953/4 edition, so I can't say exactly when they first appeared).

The Lightweight and Featherweight were avaialble in white, and the other two could also be had in black with a white patch.

In alloy, the models available are:

Tour de France Continental The 1952 Brown Brothers Catalogue also lists the Airweight model

The 1959 Beaumont catalogue lists the following, again mentioning only

celluloid and not plastic:

Lightweight Noweight Club Special

Coloured guards were available by now:

Lightweight: Black, White, "Colours" (not specified) or transparent (presumably so you could see what was sticking to the underside of the

guards?...) Transparent guards were also available at times in the 1930's, though why anyone would want them in a wet and muddy climate beats me.

Noweight: Black, White, Red, Light Green or Oxford Blue.

Club Special: Black, White, Red, Light Green, Blue Pearl, Green Pearl, Gold, Ice Blue, Yellow, Silver Grey, Pink, Oxford Blue. These were also available to the trade in a mixed Specila Pack of 12 pairs (count them - 13!!) of Red, Ice Blue, Oxford Blue, Green, Yellow, Silver Grey, Orange, Magenta (Pink by another name?), Gold Pearl, Blue Pearl, Green Pearl, Yellow Pearl and Grey Pearl.

In alloy, the models available are:

Tour de France Airweight Continental

A late 50's Brown Brothers catalogue, (exact date not established) lists the above models in celluloid (although plastic is specified for other

makes), and also lists the following celluloid guards:

Gold Medal in Black, White, Red or Ice Blue. These are described as "Plain deep 'U' section". This model does not appear in a Bluemels whole page

advertisement for mudguards in "Cycling" of November 14, 1957.

In alloy, the models available in this Brown Brothers catalogue are:

Tour de France Airweight Continental

The 1964/5 (according to a handwritten annotation on the front cover, and internal reference to the Resale Prices Act 1964) Brown Brothers catalogue lists the following in PLASTIC:

Club Special Popular Lightweight

The Club Specials are listed in Black, White, Ice Blue or Red, and the other two models were available in these colours, plus Oxford Blue.

In alloy, the models available are:

Tour de France Airweight

I'm afraid that this is as far as I can take it - perhaps someone else can fill in the later years?

Points to bear in mind are that:

1. a particular wholesaler might not have carried the full range available; 2. human error may have crept into the listings; 3. descriptions may not have been updated. For example, were Bluemels

still using celluloid for their muguards in the late 50's, or were some or all actually plastic, but still referred to by the term (celluloid) which had been in use for decades? I don't have an answer for this.

Hope this helps!

Neil Foddering Weymouth, England


>From: Phil Sieg <triodelover@comcast.net>
>To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: [CR]Bluemels timeline question
>Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:05:46 -0400
>
>I wonder if anyone can point me to resource that will give me the Bluemels
>models that were available in the 1955-1975 time frame and when those
>models first appeared withing that time frame. Specifically, I'm
>interested in the All Rounder, Sprint Veloco and TdF alloy (full version).
>TIA.
>
>
>
>--
>Phil Sieg
>Knoxville, Tennessee
>
>

To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]FS Rauler 56 c-t, no not that one! Message-ID: <20051005124613.89796.qmail@web53115.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 3

Just picked this one up a couple of months ago and have decided it is too big. It measures 55cm c-c with a 56 top tube standover is 80.75 cm with a 99cm wheelbase. The frame and fork are from the late '70's. The chrome is in good to very good condition with just a little pitting on the chain stay, hardly noticeable. Dropouts and fork crown are chromed.The paint has some scratches, but pretty good overall, no dents or rust . The decals are going, going, but not totally gone. For those that are unfamiliar with Rauler the company was formed by the brothers Raul and Reclus Gozzi about 1975. One of the brothers worked for Colnago before starting Rauler with the help of Ernesto Colnago. They took Raul's name and added the ER from Ernesto's name to come up with Rauler. Rauler did contract work for Colnago and designed and built the first Arabesque. From all the Raulers that I have seen they appear to have very good workmenship as well as paint and chrome. This frame is basically a Colnago Super with spade cutouts instead of clubs. I am asking $300 shipped to anywhere in the lower 48. The frame doesn't include the seat binder bolt or dropout screws. If you would like to see additional photos let me know of what and I will send 'em to ya. Go to the link below and then to the Rauler Blue2 folder to check it out. Please respond off list.

Mark Poore Slatyfork, WV

--------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

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Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:37:36 -0500 From: John Thompson <JohnThompson@new.rr.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Freeing up seized spoke nipples? Message-ID: <4343D720.3040703@new.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <20051005015954.75198.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051005015954.75198.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: john@os2.dhs.org Message: 4

Joe Starck wrote:
> Is it appropriate, allowable, for posts to always be
> accompanied by quotes, as Sheldon Brown always does,
> no matter the looseness of association to the contents
> of the post, no matter the political/religious
> message?

Such quotes are considered to be part of the signature, not the message content and thus are judged by a looser standard. The email RFCs suggest that such signatures be kept short -- 4 lines is a frequent rule of thumb: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html
> And what's the difference between quoting others and quoting oneself, really?

Nothing but modesty, generally.

--

-John Thompson (john@os2.dhs.org) Appleton WI USA ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:36:55 EDT From: BobHoveyGa@aol.com To: raydobbins2003@yahoo.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Question about Nuovo Record brake q/r levers Message-ID: <c0.326296b4.30753f07@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5
>hello everybody,
>were the NR brake quick release levers always flat, or did the later sets come with the bubble levers?

ray dobbins miami florida

This was one of a group of mostly useless changes mandated by the CPSC

(Consumer Products Safety Commission) in 1977-78.

Domed QR lever on brake calipers. - to prevent painful lacerations.

Rounded lips on front derailleur plates. - to avoid catching petticoats

New BB spindle - to accomodate the dimensional change in the above derailleur.

Curved QR lever on hubs. - the human hand IS curved, after all...

Bell shaped plastic shrouds on rear derailleur adjustment screws. - to assure that only the Capagnolo-approved, sold-to-bike-shops-only

adjusting screwdriver would fit.

Plastic coating on the brake pad holder wheel guides. - change color with ozone exposure to indicate age of calipers.

Shield logos on hoods - to avoid the appearance of an attempt at world domination.

Bob Hovey Columbus, GA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:50:31 +0000 From: gpvb1@comcast.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] Sort of a follow up: Last year for Nuovo Record? Message-ID: <100520051450.3669.4343E8370009C85000000E552205886360CE0D909F09@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 6

Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:31:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Dobbins <raydobbins2003@yahoo.com> To: Classic Rendezvous Bike List <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR] Sort of a follow up: Last year for Nuovo Record?

thanks to all who replied with info about the bubble q/r being introduced in 1978 as part of several cpsc mandated changes.

the campy timeline indicates that NR and SR were being produced simultaneously for a number of years (about 14 years (Greg)). it also states that the last year for SR was 1987. did campy continue to produce NR until 1987 as well, or did they phase it out before 1987?

ray dobbins miami florida Yes and no. That's a little tough to answer definitively. NR rear derailleurs stopped being dated after 1985 ("11" code), but there were then some very late ones made with no date markings at all (these turn up NOS on UK eBay from time to time, in particular, and were likely made from parts that were "lying around" IMO). Recall that only two things were really "Nuovo Record:" the rear derailleur, and the bottom bracket parts. The rest were just Record, with many tracing back to 1958 or so, and were common with SR components in most cases. A lot of what was going on was Marketing SOP, plain and simple - there have been NOS SR two-bolt seatposts showing up lately in Gran Sport boxes, for example! Hey, they were just left-over obsolete inventory that Campagnolo wanted to get rid of (in the late '70s)! My guess? SR and SR Reduced were so popular by then that relatively little (N) Record was being sold in 1986-1987 by comparison, so Campy was likely using up any baskets of previously-made component parts and finishing any work-in-progress final assemblies, but not much more than that. No tooling money would have been spent on (N) Record parts during this period, unless it was deemed absolutely necessary. No new casting or forging runs would have been undertaken, unless it enabled them to complete and sell a large batch of components relatively quickly. Woulda been cool to be a Product Engineer in one of those meetings around that time! Remember that Tullio was already gone during this period. Valentino was not as emotionally attached to the "old stuff" as was the old man..... The Company was also floundering a bit already, struggling to find it's new "identity" under Valentino, etc.... Greg Parker Dexter, Michigan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:09:59 -0400 From: Phil Sieg <triodelover@comcast.net> To: neil foddering <neilfoddering@hotmail.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Bluemels timeline question Message-ID: <4343ECC7.80100@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F33353CCA1FF26496CA6E19BF820@phx.gbl> References: <BAY101-F33353CCA1FF26496CA6E19BF820@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7

Neil,

Thanks a bunch. It's most helpful. Do you happen to know if any of the catalogues are in electronic form, on-line or otherwise?

Best regards,

Phil Sieg Knoxville, Tennessee

neil foddering wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> The 1954/5 Hobdays Cycle Accessories Catalogue lists the following
> Bluemels mudguards in cellluloid (no mention of plastic):
>
> Lightweight
> Featherweight
> Noweight
> Club Special (Listed as "New", and not appearing in the 1952/3
> catalogue. I don't have the 1953/4 edition, so I can't say exactly
> when they first appeared).
>
> The Lightweight and Featherweight were avaialble in white, and the
> other two could also be had in black with a white patch.
>
> In alloy, the models available are:
>
> Tour de France
> Continental
> The 1952 Brown Brothers Catalogue also lists the Airweight model
>
> The 1959 Beaumont catalogue lists the following, again mentioning only
> celluloid and not plastic:
>
> Lightweight
> Noweight
> Club Special
>
> Coloured guards were available by now:
>
> Lightweight: Black, White, "Colours" (not specified) or transparent
> (presumably so you could see what was sticking to the underside of the
> guards?...) Transparent guards were also available at times in the
> 1930's, though why anyone would want them in a wet and muddy climate
> beats me.
>
> Noweight: Black, White, Red, Light Green or Oxford Blue.
>
> Club Special: Black, White, Red, Light Green, Blue Pearl, Green Pearl,
> Gold, Ice Blue, Yellow, Silver Grey, Pink, Oxford Blue. These were
> also available to the trade in a mixed Specila Pack of 12 pairs (count
> them - 13!!) of Red, Ice Blue, Oxford Blue, Green, Yellow, Silver
> Grey, Orange, Magenta (Pink by another name?), Gold Pearl, Blue Pearl,
> Green Pearl, Yellow Pearl and Grey Pearl.
>
> In alloy, the models available are:
>
> Tour de France
> Airweight
> Continental
>
> A late 50's Brown Brothers catalogue, (exact date not established)
> lists the above models in celluloid (although plastic is specified for
> other makes), and also lists the following celluloid guards:
>
> Gold Medal in Black, White, Red or Ice Blue. These are described as
> "Plain deep 'U' section". This model does not appear in a Bluemels
> whole page advertisement for mudguards in "Cycling" of November 14, 1957.
>
> In alloy, the models available in this Brown Brothers catalogue are:
>
> Tour de France
> Airweight
> Continental
>
> The 1964/5 (according to a handwritten annotation on the front cover,
> and internal reference to the Resale Prices Act 1964) Brown Brothers
> catalogue lists the following in PLASTIC:
>
> Club Special
> Popular
> Lightweight
>
> The Club Specials are listed in Black, White, Ice Blue or Red, and the
> other two models were available in these colours, plus Oxford Blue.
>
> In alloy, the models available are:
>
> Tour de France
> Airweight
>
> I'm afraid that this is as far as I can take it - perhaps someone else
> can fill in the later years?
>
> Points to bear in mind are that:
>
> 1. a particular wholesaler might not have carried the full range
> available;
> 2. human error may have crept into the listings;
> 3. descriptions may not have been updated. For example, were
> Bluemels still using celluloid for their muguards in the late 50's, or
> were some or all actually plastic, but still referred to by the term
> (celluloid) which had been in use for decades? I don't have an answer
> for this.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Neil Foddering
> Weymouth, England
>
>
>> From: Phil Sieg <triodelover@comcast.net>
>> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> Subject: [CR]Bluemels timeline question
>> Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:05:46 -0400
>>
>> I wonder if anyone can point me to resource that will give me the
>> Bluemels models that were available in the 1955-1975 time frame and
>> when those models first appeared withing that time frame.
>> Specifically, I'm interested in the All Rounder, Sprint Veloco and
>> TdF alloy (full version). TIA.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Phil Sieg
>> Knoxville, Tennessee
>>
>>


> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
> Message: 12
>
> Joe Starck wrote:
>>
>> Listees,
>>
>> Is it appropriate, allowable, for posts to always be
>> accompanied by quotes, as Sheldon Brown always does,
>> no matter the looseness of association to the contents
>> of the post, no matter the political/religious
>> message? And what's the difference between quoting
>> others and quoting oneself, really?
>>
>> +----------------------------------------------------+
>> Surely, a child in the womb is a saint. Surely then,
>> it is self-evident how saints become sinners.
>> - Joe Starck
>> +----------------------------------------------------+
>>
>> Joe Starck
>> Madison, Wisconsin
>
>
>
> Sure, why not?
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | "I think it is fascinating how the bike has arrived at this |
> | idealised form that is not at all apparent to the causual observer |
> | or even some engineers. A very sophisticated object that most |
> | perceive to be a child's toy, or at best, some object designed |
> | around the Turn of the Century that can easily be improved upon by |
> | a good design engineer." |
> | --Chuck Schmidt |
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:23:53 -0800 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Quotes Message-ID: <43441A38.8135946@earthlink.net> References: <MONKEYFOOD9PC1PO4So00002881@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org> <c6ef13a09c01b0435ebad3e36a3918d0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net Message: 9

Gilbert Anderson wrote:
>
> Go Chuck Go!,
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
> The diamond frame safety bicycle; as elegant and beautiful a thing that it
> is hasn't changed in overall design since it's conception.
>
> The two wheeled bicycle evolved as a device that was extremely
> unlikely to ever have been invented at all.
>
> ------Alex Moulton, Engineer and Bicycle Manufacturer
> some development works and credits - Mosquito Bomber, Concorde
> Jetliner MG Motorcars, Bentley, Morris Mini, Moulton Coach,
> Moulton and Alex Moulton "F" Frame and Spaceframe bicycles;
> all developed during the CR timeline.
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
> Yours in Cycling,
> Gilbert Anderson

Good one Gilbert!

While riding yesterday I was thinking who would have been the first to dream that it was possible to eliminate half the wheels of a cart and balance on the resulting contraption?

Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, Southern California

. ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:16:30 -0700 (PDT) From: sam lingo <frameteam2003@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Quotes Message-ID: <20051005181631.5223.qmail@web51509.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <43441A38.8135946@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: list
Message: 10


--- Chuck Schmidt wrote:


>
> While riding yesterday I was thinking who would have
> been the first to
> dream that it was possible to eliminate half the
> wheels of a cart and
> balance on the resulting contraption?
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, Southern California ------------------------------------------------------- BICYCLES Here is a magic thing that man has made.A 200 pound man can sit on it,on the top of this thin little thing.He could pick it up in his hand and toss it in this car.He could take it in the house and up the stars.An absolutely marvelous piece of engineering that sort of grew.Nobody engineered the first one--he just made it.Then it was refined and refined,made lighter,and made out of tubes. O'Neil Ford,architect ------------------------------------------------------ sam lingo,pleasanton tx

http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:58:18 +0100 (BST) From: Michael Butler <pariscycles@yahoo.co.uk> To: CR Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR] Interesting Ebay Brit Frames Message-ID: <20051005185818.36983.qmail@web25306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 11

There are some interesting Brit frames on ebay at the moment. 1st. Dave Davey this shop became George Brooks after Dave sold out to work in a warehouse to earn more money than he could make from the bike trade. Sadly some shelving came down on him in the warehouse while he was working there and left him badly crippled. I seem to remember that he died not long after this tragic accident. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DAVE-DAVEY-FRAMESET-HARINGGAY-211-2-NERVEX-LUGS_W0QQitemZ6565975928QQcategoryZ420QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

2nd. Paris not sure if this is bilaminated as it looks conventional lugs to me, sure the real frame building experts will know on the list. Interesting frame. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PARIS-TOUR-DE-FRANCE-FRAME-SET-c1950_W0QQitemZ6565976227QQcategoryZ420QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

3rd. Reg Harris these neverreally sold in any numbers and are quite rare. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PARIS-TOUR-DE-FRANCE-FRAME-SET-c1950_W0QQitemZ6565976227QQcategoryZ420QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

4th. Fastback Hetchins? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hetchins-OR-COPY-Fastback-Frame_W0QQitemZ6565989437QQcategoryZ69825QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

5th. Jimmy Harrison there were three of these but the best really fancy lugged one has vanished still two great unusual frames left. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hand-built-road-racing-bike-James-Harrison-of-Manchstr_W0QQitemZ7185668881QQcategoryZ72573QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hand-built-road-racing-frame-James-Harrison-of-MCR_W0QQitemZ7186419604QQcategoryZ22679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Some interesting unusual stuff makes a change form the run of the mill ebay offerings no connection with any of the vendors.

Thats all for now. Keep those wheels spinning, in your memories if not still on the road. Be lucky Mick Butler Huntingdon UK.

------------------------------