RE: [CR]Was: Holy mackerel, 77 Masi Prestige Fiera, Now: holes in csbr idge

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From: <"brianbaylis@juno.com">
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 15:20:46 GMT
To: ebrooks@eriwine.com
Subject: RE: [CR]Was: Holy mackerel, 77 Masi Prestige Fiera, Now: holes in csbr idge
cc: marcus.e.helman@gm.com
cc: marcus.e.helman@gm.com

Edward,

Regarding "unsung heros" of framebuilding. Truer words were never spoken . Marketing is the "key to success" in the framebuilding world today, ju st as it is in all other aspects of life. Frequently, those with the big gest advertising campaign and those who spend more time marketing than b uilding small numbers of carefully designed and crafted bikes grossly ov ershadow the unique and superior work of the smaller decicated framebuil der. This is an element of our society today. To be perfectly honest, ma ny consumers are lazy and don't know anything about the craft; but inste ad of really learning what it actually involves and becomming sensitive to the subtleties and the depth of some of the smaller builders' dedicat ion to making personal and unique bikes, they all too often are sucked i n by the mass marketing blanket of outfits who know that the public is b asically ignorant of the facts and are easily told what to think. Consum ers become preconditioned to believe the propaganda and before long ther e is a "fan club" and a "following" (like lemmings) which makes it popul ar to support and own these brands. For those who have a real interest i n the craft in it's purest form, one must dig deeper and disregard the f ancy websites and onslaught of self promotion that tends to "spin" the c raft into a form that people think is the pinnicle, when in fact it is g enerally the average level of the craft.

Your local framebuilder is generally the best place to begin your resear ch. A visit to a framebuilder, keeping your mind and eyes open, will mos t likely educate you to things you've never seen or considered about bui lding frames. Upper end custom framebuilding is all about subtleties and pride of workmanship at a level that is above the adverage. What is ave rage? About 90% or more of what is built by well known framebuilders. Th is is not a bad thing BTW. What this means is that the mimumun effort (I C lugs, no filing, cookie cutter frames) are of a very high standard and any builder with a little training and 5 years experience can build the same or better frame as someone with 25 years experience doing the same thing. It's a fact. Just look around. The exceptionl designs and artist ic craftsmen do not make a big deal about marketing. They will always ha ve more work than they can do and only a few followers who don't belong to the big fan clubs.

Do your research people. If you want something above the average, you wi ll have to look beyond the pile of promotional material into the heart o f the dedicated small builder. Every small builder is "dedicated"; the q uestion is dedicated to what?

Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA Don't like advertizing campaigns in general, not a fan of the "fan clubs ", love the small dedicated builder committed to the work more than thei r public image.


-- "Edward Brooks" wrote:


Ike was one of a number of small production Chicago area frame builders in the 1970's who generally produced very nice frames. Ike took a lot of ti me on the thinning and finishing of the lugs and his frames were very elega nt as well as very well built. However, there were failure problems with th e early frames at the chainstays where they were pierced by the bridge and he subsequently abdicated that practice. Other local builders of note inclu ded Bob Myers, Bob Hodge and most definitely Ron Boi who built for a long ti me and provided frames for several very successful racers. Ron was not a proponent of a lot of lug thinning as he believed this potentially jeopardized the integrity of the frames so his frames were perhaps not a s elegant as some but they were aesthetically nicely executed nonetheless and were technically very well built and reliable. There were a number of American "unsung hero" frame builders who through lack of marketing and/ or small numbers of frames produced are virtually unknown today. I'm sure t he same is true for some high quality U.K. and Italian frame builders. I ha ve come across several beautiful frames from makers who are not yet represe nted on the CR site. Hopefully some of the list members who are more knowledgeable than I can fill in the blanks for the rest of us. Edward Robert Brooks Managing Director Edward Roberts International Auctioneers of the Fine and Rare 1262 West Winwood Drive Lake Forest, Illinois 60045 Phone- 847.295.8696 Facsimile- 847.295.8697 Email- ebrooks@eriwine.com Website- http://www.eriwine.com

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of marcus.e.helman@gm.com Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:01 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Was: Holy mackerel, 77 Masi Prestige Fiera, Now: holes in csbridge

John Jorgenson wrote about seeing a frame with a hole running through th e chainstay bridge. Dwight (Ike) Safter, who built frames at Turin Bicycl e Co-op in Chicago in the 1970's made them like that. Local legend was th at he been taught by Albert Eisentraut. The frames did look cool with a contrasting color inside the tube. Later I heard that a fair number had

cracked at the bridge. I wonder how many frames he made. Has anybody heard of Safter frames?

Marcus Helman Huntington Woods, MI

Chuck & All

Falerio's signature was on the frames when slotted chainstays first appeared on a Masi. With show bike frequency I think and different in execution.

Regarding the structural integrity, there was an American builder who's name escapes me, building in the 70's, that fabricated the chainstay bridge a s a section of tube that pierced both stays and terminated at the outside. O ne could see through the bridge. Was for additional stiffness the owner tol d us, a few months later He was by the shop with the bare frame seeking a frame repair at the cracked stay radiating from the piercing tube. Proba bly too big a hole in that case, and easier to prototype than do a structura l analysis. Perhaps the price of advancement, or attempt to.

Regarding the Masi twin plate crown, I like them for their additional fo re & aft compliance, they are softer in ride, as long as the harmonic is not sympathetic,

John Jorgensen
Palos Verdes Ca