Re: [CR]Holy mackerel, 77 Masi Prestige Fiera

Example: Racing:Roger de Vlaeminck

Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 07:31:41 -0500
From: Harvey M Sachs <>
To:, Classic Rendezvous <>, Harvey M Sachs <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Holy mackerel, 77 Masi Prestige Fiera

<>In commenting on my post about the slots mutilating chainstays on a Masi, Chuck Schmidt brought in some new perspectives which deserve response:

Chuck: Harvey, I think your lost respect should be directed at A. Masi, not F. Masi... Harvey: I'm sorry, I had forgotten that distinction. One was a designer and the other a stylist? :-) I like Masis, but don't follow the marque closely, and have never owned one.

Chuck: While I think the holes are stupid, I don't see the harm in the structural integrity, i.e. the stays aint gonna be breakin in the next century or two. Harvey: I had not thought about fatigue failure in this case, but increased strain (displacement, lateral or angular) under a given load, not something I generally view as positive for chainstays. However, I have seen apparent fatigue failure in chainstays on one high-zoot Italian bike (not a Masi).

Chuck: Just something Alberto did to make the bike a little different than everyone else's. Harvey: To me, unless data are presented, it's not just a little different, but fully capable of degrading performance. To make sure I offend everyone, looks to me like one step worse than curly stays. :-) Again, I'd love to see bench data, or simulations. Even if I didn't understand them.

Chuck: Like the twin plate fork crown used for a while which I love, but which is functionally no better or worse than the Fischer (well, maybe not as elegant as the Fischer, but more interesting in an unusual, retro way). Harvey: This is a small point, but I don't think the comparison is really relevant. I like twin plate crowns, too. I agree that they are likely to be functionally equivalent to other designs (and less work than the internal tangs of Cinelli sloping crowns, which I also love). The difference is my assertion that the Mutilated Masi chain stays are functionally worse -- until I'm shown to be wrong (which I'd really love, in this case). As far as I can tell from the pictures, these slots aren't even structurally lined, unlike Pino's Peculiar Penetrations, which had tubing brazed in place on both sides, and might even have had some benefit, had they been put in horizontally in the chainstays. And, being modestly small, they were much less likely to harm performance, even if they were purely decorative.

BTW, thanks to several members who sent nice off-list notes agreeing with my estimate. And to a Former List Member from Boston who owns one and differs with my characterization in his own way.

harvey sachs
mcLean va