RE: [CR] re: painting a second color on a frame.


content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: [CR] re: painting a second color on a frame.
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:22:43 -0800
Thread-Topic: [CR] re: painting a second color on a frame.
Thread-Index: AcXwSIucPWogIGkZSzaIoydTT1mM+wAAG09Q
From: "George Argiris" <George.Argiris@mitchell.com>
To: <brianbaylis@juno.com>, <jswan@optonline.net>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

I don't prefer painting the edge with stainless, chrome, or any bare metal lug. If you don't clear over them you get chipping over time, or just pulling away. Also with wear, you see the primer layer because your looking down at the edge.

george argiris san diego,ca

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of brianbaylis@juno.com Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:09 AM To: jswan@optonline.net Cc: fatticbicycles@qtm.net; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] re: painting a second color on a frame.

Jamie and all,

For an example of stainless lugs masked all the way down to the tube, lo ok at some of the work of Richard Moon. His work is the rare case where masking the lug edge on a stainless lug works. Generally, stainless lugs do require masking so the color comes up to the top lug edge. It's diff icult to do either way, and what may look best will depend on the lugs i n question and the paint job. A lot of what a painter does is based on w hat they were taught or what they learned. Back when I started there was no one to teach me, so I went about it the way I thought would work. As it turns out, I'm one of the few who does the lug edge the same color a s the lug. I like it that way, but it's also the way I taught myself. My masking and painting techniques evolved together out of necessity and h ave to be used together to get the results I get. A lot of it depends on how the lugs are filed.

Both ways work. Apparently some people have preferances.

Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA


-- James Swan wrote:


Hi Doug,

First off, thanks for complimenting the cleanliness of my lug edges. It

is disheartening to hear that doing them that way makes it harder to

paint the edges the way I prefer.

I understand the various issues that you have to contend with; and why

they are factors, beyond the aesthetics, that influence your decision

to paint the lug edges the color of the tube and not the lug. But are

those problems insurmountable? I think that there are other painters

who seem to be successful at doing it "my way". Perhaps they choose

their paints and make other compromises with these considerations in

mind.

For my money I would be happy to make compromises in the interest of

having the lug edges the same color as the lug. I suspect that you

would too if you thought it looked better.

This really is a big issue with me. I've had frames painted "your way"

and I just can't get used to the look of it. I feel like I have to

stand by my own sense of aesthetics and make my bikes look as good as I

can to my eye.

I also agree with the point that Roman brought up about frames with

stainless steel lugs. I'm working on my first one now and I've been

thinking the same thing. I might have have no choice but to do it "your

way" this time.

Regards, Jamie Swan - Northport, N.Y. http://www.centerportcycles.com (mapped) http://www.limws.org http://www.liatca.org http://www.cabinfeverliquidations.com

On Nov 22, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Doug Fattic wrote:
> Hi Jamie, Bob and Roman,
>
> My desire to allow the opinion that it is not an inferior method to
> have a
> second frame color come up the edge of the lug is not just a stand
> alone
> aesthetic question but is really an aesthetic question related to
> technical
> possibilities. In other words, some types of paint and some ways of
> filing
> lugs prevents a good way of having a clean color change at the bottom


> of the
> lug edge. Roman hit on one of these challenges when he mentioned that


> it
> would be difficult - if not impossible - to polish the side of a
> stainless
> steel lug. The result would be a duller and rougher side than the top


> so
> that difference would have an aesthetic impact beyond just where the
> color
> line is drawn. The types of paints I use have varying degrees of
> thickness
> that would also bring real challenges to making a smooth color
> transition.
> The thin base coat/clear coat types of paint would allow for painting


> the
> whole lug including it's edge without problems. However, if I used a


> candy
> color that might have a dozen layers of paint, I've got to balance out


> that
> thickness layer with the other color where they meet. If the lugs are
> really thinned, like I love to do them, the paint thickness will take


> away
> from that effect. In addition, I paint bicycle frames made from
> around the
> world where the quality of the lug edge is less than perfect (by
> contrast,
> Jamie, in your pictures of your frames, your brazing around the lug
> edges
> looked great!). This makes a smooth transition even more difficult.
>
> So to sum it up, it isn't just a question of where to draw the line
> but will
> where the line be drawn make the whole affect look worse because of
> technical difficulties like the thickness of the paint choice, etc. I
> didn't want the judgment of the quality of a multi color paint job to


> be
> decided only by it's transition point. Besides I really like the lug


> edges
> to be painted the same color as the head tube because that is how they


> did
> it in England on my old Hetchins, Hurlow and Ellis Briggs. Hmmm,
> maybe I'm
> more conservative than I thought.
>
> Doug Fattic
> Niles, Michigan