Re: [CR] re: painting a second color on a frame.


Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:57:52 -0500
From: James Swan <jswan@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [CR] re: painting a second color on a frame.
In-reply-to: <20051123.081003.13019.23267@webmail05.lax.untd.com>
To: "brianbaylis@juno.com" <brianbaylis@juno.com>
References: <20051123.081003.13019.23267@webmail05.lax.untd.com>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Hi Brian,

What is it about Richard Moon's stainless lug edges that allows them to be left unpainted.

Regards, Jamie Swan - Northport, N.Y. http://www.centerportcycles.com (mapped) http://www.cabinfeverliquidations.com http://www.limws.org http://www.liatca.org

On Nov 23, 2005, at 11:09 AM, brianbaylis@juno.com wrote:
> Jamie and all,
>
> For an example of stainless lugs masked all the way down to the tube,
> lo
> ok at some of the work of Richard Moon. His work is the rare case where
> masking the lug edge on a stainless lug works. Generally, stainless
> lugs
> do require masking so the color comes up to the top lug edge. It's
> diff
> icult to do either way, and what may look best will depend on the lugs
> i
> n question and the paint job. A lot of what a painter does is based on
> w
> hat they were taught or what they learned. Back when I started there
> was
> no one to teach me, so I went about it the way I thought would work.
> As
> it turns out, I'm one of the few who does the lug edge the same color
> a
> s the lug. I like it that way, but it's also the way I taught myself.
> My
> masking and painting techniques evolved together out of necessity and
> h
> ave to be used together to get the results I get. A lot of it depends
> on
> how the lugs are filed.
>
> Both ways work. Apparently some people have preferances.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
>
>
>
> -- James Swan <jswan@optonline.net> wrote:
> Hi Doug,
>
> First off, thanks for complimenting the cleanliness of my lug edges. It
>
>
> is disheartening to hear that doing them that way makes it harder to
>
> paint the edges the way I prefer.
>
> I understand the various issues that you have to contend with; and why
>
> they are factors, beyond the aesthetics, that influence your decision
>
> to paint the lug edges the color of the tube and not the lug. But are
>
> those problems insurmountable? I think that there are other painters
>
> who seem to be successful at doing it "my way". Perhaps they choose
>
> their paints and make other compromises with these considerations in
>
> mind.
>
> For my money I would be happy to make compromises in the interest of
>
> having the lug edges the same color as the lug. I suspect that you
>
> would too if you thought it looked better.
>
> This really is a big issue with me. I've had frames painted "your way"
>
> and I just can't get used to the look of it. I feel like I have to
>
> stand by my own sense of aesthetics and make my bikes look as good as I
>
>
> can to my eye.
>
> I also agree with the point that Roman brought up about frames with
>
> stainless steel lugs. I'm working on my first one now and I've been
>
> thinking the same thing. I might have have no choice but to do it "your
>
>
> way" this time.
>
> Regards, Jamie Swan - Northport, N.Y.
> http://www.centerportcycles.com (mapped)
> http://www.limws.org
> http://www.liatca.org
> http://www.cabinfeverliquidations.com
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 22, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Doug Fattic wrote:
>
>> Hi Jamie, Bob and Roman,
>>
>> My desire to allow the opinion that it is not an inferior method to
>
>> have a
>> second frame color come up the edge of the lug is not just a stand
>
>> alone
>> aesthetic question but is really an aesthetic question related to
>
>> technical
>> possibilities. In other words, some types of paint and some ways of
>
>> filing
>> lugs prevents a good way of having a clean color change at the bottom
>
>
>> of the
>> lug edge. Roman hit on one of these challenges when he mentioned that
>
>
>> it
>> would be difficult - if not impossible - to polish the side of a
>
>> stainless
>> steel lug. The result would be a duller and rougher side than the top
>
>
>> so
>> that difference would have an aesthetic impact beyond just where the
>
>> color
>> line is drawn. The types of paints I use have varying degrees of
>
>> thickness
>> that would also bring real challenges to making a smooth color
>
>> transition.
>> The thin base coat/clear coat types of paint would allow for painting
>
>
>> the
>> whole lug including it's edge without problems. However, if I used a
>
>
>> candy
>> color that might have a dozen layers of paint, I've got to balance out
>
>
>> that
>> thickness layer with the other color where they meet. If the lugs are
>
>> really thinned, like I love to do them, the paint thickness will take
>
>
>> away
>> from that effect. In addition, I paint bicycle frames made from
>
>> around the
>> world where the quality of the lug edge is less than perfect (by
>
>> contrast,
>> Jamie, in your pictures of your frames, your brazing around the lug
>
>> edges
>> looked great!). This makes a smooth transition even more difficult.
>>
>> So to sum it up, it isn't just a question of where to draw the line
>
>> but will
>> where the line be drawn make the whole affect look worse because of
>> technical difficulties like the thickness of the paint choice, etc. I
>
>> didn't want the judgment of the quality of a multi color paint job to
>
>
>> be
>> decided only by it's transition point. Besides I really like the lug
>
>
>> edges
>> to be painted the same color as the head tube because that is how they
>
>
>> did
>> it in England on my old Hetchins, Hurlow and Ellis Briggs. Hmmm,
>
>> maybe I'm
>> more conservative than I thought.
>>
>> Doug Fattic
>> Niles, Michigan