My last three acquisitions have all been British frames - a '58 Paragon, a '58 Rotrax Shirley, and an early '60s Viking for which I'm still trying to pin down the model. Seat tubes on the Rotrax and Viking are 51 cm ctc and the top tubes are both 55cm. The Paragon is slightly bigger with a ~52cm seat tube (again ctc) and 55.5 cm top tube.
Thanks to list member Peter Brown, I have some of the history on the Paragon. It was custom built for the wife of a British club racer - a member of the Lincoln Wheelmen in the post-war era. I also have documentation of the original owner of the Rotrax, a gentleman in Portsmouth according to the 1959 police registration. Dunno about the Viking, other than it was once registered in Minneapolis. All of the frames have fork lamp bosses so I suspect their intended use was not racing per se, but more in a "sport/touring" class (which works for me).
What makes this "trend" fortuitous for me is that my custom off-topic Bike Who Shall Not Speak Its Name has a 51 cm seat tube and 55 cm top tube. Most of the time if I find a frame with a suitably short seat tube length, I'm forced to compensate for the shorter top tube with a longer (than I would prefer) stem.
Phil Sieg Knoxville, Tennessee
Fred Rafael Rednor wrote:
>But Brandon was talking about older frames - i.e. 1960s and
>older. I can tell you that when I was searching for a 1950s
>era British frame to use as a fixed gear, all the small and
>medium sized frames had - what I would consider - really long
>top tubes. For example, it seemed as though every 20.5 inch
>frame had a 22.5 inch top tube.
>
>I think that by the '70s, geometry was less idiosyncratic for
>"normal" bicycles.
> Cheers,
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
>
>
>
>>Not on larger frames, at least in the '70s. Many (though not
>>all) of the
>>more common brands had ridiculously short top tubes, at least
>>by current
>>standards: a 25 1/2" (65cm) Raleigh Comp GS has a 22 1/2"
>>(57cm) top tube,
>>about 5cm shorter than current designs. Bob Jackson and
>>other popular Brit
>>brands ran similarly short top tubes.
>>
>>Scott Peterson
>>Bend, OR
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Brandon Ives" <brandon@ivycycles.com>
>>To: <kohl57@starpower.net>
>>Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:08 AM
>>Subject: Brit Sizing was:(Re: [CR]A Beauty from Barton on
>>Humber)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>You're right Peter, I do love it. I wonder about the sizing
>>>
>>>
>>of British
>>
>>
>>>vs. Italian bikes, I think a lot of folks pass on Brit
>>>
>>>
>>frames because
>>
>>
>>>they think they're small when sized by the seattube
>>>
>>>
>>measurement. I'm
>>
>>
>>>wondering if it's just my impression or actual reality that
>>>
>>>
>>British
>>
>>
>>>lightweights had longer toptubes than similarly sized
>>>
>>>
>>Italian bikes, at
>>
>>
>>>least in the '60s and before. My impression is that
>>>
>>>
>>Italian bikes had
>>
>>
>>>toptubes shorter than their seattubes and used longer
>>>
>>>
>>stems. British
>>
>>
>>>bikes seemed to have square frames or even longer toptubes
>>>
>>>
>>than their
>>
>>
>>>seattubes and run shorter stems. Does anyone else see this
>>>
>>>
>>or am I
>>
>>
>>>just hallucinating?
>>>best,
>>>Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>>>taking my "KOF" bike out in
>>>the nasty weather in
>>>Vancouver, B.C.
>>>
>>>On Thursday, Nov 3, 2005, at 09:30 US/Pacific,
>>>
>>>
>>kohl57@starpower.net
>>
>>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>If anyone still doubts that classic English lightweights
>>>>
>>>>
>>c. late
>>
>>
>>>>'40s-60
>>>>s
>>>>are hard to beat for their names, colours, lining and
>>>>
>>>>
>>especially
>>
>>
>>>>transfers
>>>>
>>>>(decals), I offer the following late 1950s Hopper
>>>>
>>>>
>>"Vampire" (don't you
>>
>>
>>>>lov
>>>>e
>>>>it?!) frameset on eBay:
>>>>
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/7qrd8
>>>>
>>>>Not my auction and sadly another too small English frame
>>>>
>>>>
>>for me..
>>
>>
>>>>Peter Kohler
>>>>Washington DC USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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