Actually, zero were ever silver-soldered. ;-)
(There's that term again.... Oh no...).
For their silver-brazed fillet joints, what percent silver content was the wire? Does anyone know, for any fillet-brazed frame that had silver-content wire used?
When I was silver-brazing, I used EF45, which was a 45% silver wire (and had Cadmium in it, so was somewhat toxic...).
Greg Parker not currently soldering any plumbing pipes, or brazing any bike frames, in Ann Arbor, Michigan
> Quite a few frames have been built over the years lugless with silver
\r?\n> solder. The early Thanet Silverlights were built lugless - Thants had less
\r?\n> trouble with joints coing undone than tubes tearing especially where the
\r?\n> seat tube and down tube were joined to the bottom bracket shell - this is
\r?\n> quite different to the standard BB shell method of attachment. In the 1980s
\r?\n> Ernie Janes who had built many of the early frames at Thanets showed me a
\r?\n> conventional frame built lugless with silver - it was one of several he had
\r?\n> built for himself and I think his son. The fillets were much smaller than on
\r?\n> a conventional fillet brazed frame.
\r?\n> And about four or five years ago I bought a 753 aero tubed Raleigh road
\r?\n> frame - this was built lugless with silver as there were no suitable lugs
\r?\n> and its fillets are a similar size to the ones I have seen on early
\r?\n> Silverlights and on Ernie's frame. It is certain that Raleigh with its close
\r?\n> links with Reynolds and the development of 753 that the silver solder used
\r?\n> was suitable for the job. Only about 50 sets of the 753 aero tubing were
\r?\n> made according to Mike Mullett who worked at Raleigh SPD operation in the
\r?\n> late 70s when the tubesets were made - and Raleigh only used about 25 of the
\r?\n> sets... At least one set has been built up by Argos here in Bristol I
\r?\n> believe.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Hilary Stone, Bristol, England
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> > From: gpvb1@comcast.net
\r?\n> > Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 19:43:32 +0000
\r?\n> > To: Steve Leitgen
\r?\n> > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n> > Subject: Re: [CR] modern KOF fillet brazed builders
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > What percent silver was your wire? What brand and part number? How did you get
\r?\n> > your miters good enough to use silver? Without any lugs, the gaps would be
\r?\n> > even more critical. How did you build a fillet with high-silver-content wire?
\r?\n> > That sounds a bit fishy to me, unless the silver content was actually quite
\r?\n> > low.... Professional framebuilders, what say you?
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Greg Parker
\r?\n> > Ann Arbor, Michigan
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > -------------- Original message --------------
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> >> Seeing as how I have a fillet silver brazed Columbus KL frame I did 25 >
\r?\n> >> years ago still in my basement the answer would be yes, you can fillet
\r?\n> >> braze with silver. If I remember right you need a higher sliver content
\r?\n> >> brazing rod. The stuff was thicker and didn't flow as well as standard
\r?\n> >> 60-40. It did flow smoother than brass. Less cleanup filing. Also had a
\r?\n> >> lower flow temp so didn't cook the columbus tubing. Columbus apparently
\r?\n> >> doesn't do well over 1450F.
\r?\n> >>
\r?\n> >> Hope this helps.
\r?\n> >>
\r?\n> >> Steve Leitgen
\r?\n> >> La Crosse, WI
\r?\n> >>
\r?\n> >> On Dec 3, 2005, at 11:57 AM, gpvb1@comcast.net wrote:
\r?\n> >>
\r?\n> >>> Gaaaaah! A dagger to me aged heart! Don't say silver-solder! Claaaass!
\r?\n> >>> Claaaass! Sister Mary Elephant says please pay attention! ;-)
\r?\n> >>>
\r?\n> >>> Frames are brazed. They are not soldered together. Plumbing is
\r?\n> >>> soldered.
\r?\n> >>> And Dursley Pedersens don't count, so there! I don't believe that they
\r?\n> >>> are soldered anyways, so neener, neener, neener!
\r?\n> >>>
\r?\n> >>> I'm also not aware of any silver brazing wire that you can
\r?\n> >>> fillet-braze with. Has that changed recently?
\r?\n> >>>
\r?\n> >>> Greg Parker
\r?\n> >>> Ann Arbor, Michigan
\r?\n> >>>
\r?\n> >>> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 11:26:09 -0500
\r?\n> >>> From: Angel Garcia
\r?\n> >>> To: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS
\r?\n> >>> Subject: Re: [CR] modern KOF fillet brazed builders
\r?\n> >>>
\r?\n> >>> The high end Moser TK2 bikes are fillet braze construction using
\r?\n> >>> silver
\r?\n> >>> solder (tubeset is Deda 16.5 EOM steel).
\r?\n> >>> Angel Garcia
\r?\n> >>> Verona, Italy
\r?\n> >>>
\r?\n> >>>
\r?\n> >>> On 12/3/05, rodk3d@comcast.net wrote:
\r?\n> >>>
\r?\n> >>>> All this talk of fillet brazing has me wondering who the modern KOF
\r?\n> >>>> fillet
\r?\n> >>>> brazed builders are. 3 modern builders that come to mind are David
\r?\n> >>>> Kirk,
\r?\n> >>>> Jeff Lyon and John Slawta, I'm sure there are many others. What do you
\r?\n> >>>> owners of newer fillet brazed frames think of them overall?
\r?\n> >>>>
\r?\n> >>>> cheers,
\r?\n> >>>> Rod Kronenberg
\r?\n> >>>> Fort Collins, CO