I'm looking into buying a Dawes "Dalesman" to use as my daily rider. What can you tell me about it? I've looked at our CR site but not much info about htis model. Any info would be great.
Michael Hendricks San Jose, Ca. 95126
> [Original Message]
> From: <classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: 12/18/2005 12:00:20 PM
> Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 36, Issue 91
>
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>
> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. re: for sale maillard helicomatic hub set and 13-26 fw
> (Harvey M Sachs)
> 2. Campy HF flanges: brittle or not? (Harvey M Sachs)
> 3. Is Mavic Open 4 CD off topic? (Harvey M Sachs)
> 4. Re: Campy HF flanges: brittle or not? (Joe Bender-Zanoni)
> 5. Campag Hi-flange hubs...now Trivia. (Norris Lockley)
> 6. RE: Campagnolo Seatpost Comparison (Mark Bulgier)
> 7. Anti seize & cottered cranks (Howard Bishop)
> 8. RE: Anti seize & cottered cranks (Mark Bulgier)
> 9. mystery simplex (Howard Darr)
> 10. RE: Anti seize & cottered cranks (Mark Bulgier)
> 11. Re: mystery simplex
> 12. Re: mystery simplex (Hilary Stone)
> 13. Re: mystery simplex (Olof Stroh)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:33:09 -0500
> From: Harvey M Sachs <sachshm@cox.net>
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: re: [CR]for sale maillard helicomatic hub set and 13-26 fw
> Message-ID: <43A56515.8070802@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu
> Message: 1
>
> Robbie Fellows is offering maillard helicomatic hub set and 13-26 fw:
>
> they are good used condition.
> sf /36 hole.
> need good cleaning.
> no skewers.
>
> $20.00 shipped U.S.
>
> I would happily sell a spare rear, incomplete, with FW, for $10 shipped
US, but this may be too high a price... A buddy decided it would be better
to have same at my house than his, knowing tha I admire the Helicomatic as
a transition technology, but enough is enough and I have enough already.
>
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:17:21 -0500
> From: Harvey M Sachs <sachshm@cox.net>
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>,
> Jim Papadopoulos <papadopoulos@alum.mit.edu>
> Subject: [CR]Campy HF flanges: brittle or not?
> Message-ID: <43A56F71.7040301@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu
> Message: 2
>
> I've owned a Campy record hf road hub with a crack in the web. resulted
> from an overshift into the spokes.
> Not uncommon, I expect. So, I assumed that they are made of a hard alloy.
>
> But, wait. Recently, a list buddy and swapped some parts. I wound up
> with a Campy Record HF track hub with a flange bent in maybe 10 degrees
> around about 90 - 120 degrees of the circumference. No prolem, this had
> been fully disclosed by the Honorable List Member, and I figured I could
> lace it up for a rider/commuter and not worry about it. Just on a whim,
> I put the brass jaws in the vise, clamped down on the flange, and bent
> it back. Worked just like on soft aluminum. Yielded smoothly. No cracks
> found. I'm pleased, of course, and this sort of fits in inutitively
> with the common experience of deformation around spoke holes, but I'm
> having some trouble reconciliing my mental metal models. Eh?
>
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:41:00 -0500
> From: Harvey M Sachs <sachshm@cox.net>
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Is Mavic Open 4 CD off topic?
> Message-ID: <43A574FC.5040703@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu
> Message: 3
>
> I just found a NOS "Mavic Open 4 CD double stainless steel eyelet hard
> anodized treatment 650 V" rim in my stash. Is this an on-topic (1983 or
> earlier?) rim?
>
> Early 80s were a time when I wasn't buying much new or old, and I just
> don't know. If it is off topic, please do not respond on the list, but
> I'd appreciate hearing from you.
>
> thakns
>
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:05:40 -0500
> From: Joe Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net>
> To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu
> Cc: Jim Papadopoulos <papadopoulos@alum.mit.edu>
> Cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Campy HF flanges: brittle or not?
> Message-ID: <43A588D4.8070301@optonline.net>
> In-Reply-To: <43A56F71.7040301@cox.net>
> References: <43A56F71.7040301@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
> Precedence: list
> Message: 4
>
> Its likely in the heat treating, not the alloys of the shell. I doubt
> Campy changed the aluminum alloys much over time, probably using the
> equivalent of 6061 because it is obviously a high strength alloy and
> few, if any, corrosion problems are reported. A 6061 alloy would
> typically be heat treated to a T6 condition. If it missed the heat treat
> or was subjected to a period of temperature above say 350 degrees F (its
> a time at temperature deal), the material will go toward the annealed,
> soft T0 condition. I'm sure the occasional person heats an aluminum part
> to break free a pedal, crank or freewheel, but it is not a good idea.
>
> Trivia: A pure aluminum ring placed on edge will not support its own
> weight! I worked out the math once while doing a paper on the properties
> of pure materials. Alloys are wonderful things.
>
> More trivia, but more practical for users of old alloy parts: It is a
> wonderful thing that most bike parts are 6061 alloy. It is very
> corrosion resistant. If you have 7075 or 2024 alloy parts, check them
> very carefully for corrosion over time. I had an amazing degree of
> corrosion in a 7075 seat post once. Also, early aluminum parts may be of
> unproven (and unknowable) alloys.
>
>
> Joe Bender-Zanoni
> Great Notch, NJ
>
> Harvey M Sachs wrote:
>
> > I've owned a Campy record hf road hub with a crack in the web.
> > resulted from an overshift into the spokes.
> > Not uncommon, I expect. So, I assumed that they are made of a hard
> > alloy.
> >
> > But, wait. Recently, a list buddy and swapped some parts. I wound up
> > with a Campy Record HF track hub with a flange bent in maybe 10
> > degrees around about 90 - 120 degrees of the circumference. No
> > prolem, this had been fully disclosed by the Honorable List Member,
> > and I figured I could lace it up for a rider/commuter and not worry
> > about it. Just on a whim, I put the brass jaws in the vise, clamped
> > down on the flange, and bent it back. Worked just like on soft
> > aluminum. Yielded smoothly. No cracks found. I'm pleased, of course,
> > and this sort of fits in inutitively with the common experience of
> > deformation around spoke holes, but I'm having some trouble
> > reconciliing my mental metal models. Eh?
> >
> > harvey sachs
> > mcLean va
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:56:35 -0000
> From: "Norris Lockley" <norris@norrislockley.wanadoo.co.uk>
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Campag Hi-flange hubs...now Trivia.
> Message-ID: <000801c603f4$0212ae00$a30f4d51@norris>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 5
>
> I found Joe's " trivia" at the end of the Campag HF hub contri very
> valuable info.
>
> A few years ago I attempted to buy out a French manufacturer's stock of
> moulds and tooling to make carbon-tubed racing frames ( I know it's
> slightly off-topic, but I'll get to the point ASAP). the problem that I
> foresaw was that of obtaining a supply of cast aluminiun lugs, brackets
> and fork ends without importing from a French manufacturer. Having
> obtained sample lugs I sent them to a high-end company in the UK for
> analysis of the alloy etc The results showed a marine-spec alloy high in
> magnesium..and very high anti-corrosion qualities. Can't remember the
> exact No...but I don't think it was one of the 6000 series. No matter..
>
> In ther late 70s I got into the anodised components business...my first
> venture being one of the first Vitus Duralinox 9709 frames in silver,
> built up with components, anodised in red or blue...so that the finished
> bike looked like a mobile French "Tricoloure". Great!!
> The second venture was based on the same model of frame..so that the
> chosen colours would contrast with the satin silver of the
> tubes...benefitted from alll the components being anodised in either old
> gold or bronze. The components were a mix of French, Japanese and
> Italian. I think I learned more about grades of aluminium alloy from
> these projects than from any book I ever read..and in retrospect it now
> all seems obvious.
>
> The components taking the best anodising were the SR bars, the
> Stronglight chainrings, and the Maillard LF hubs...the worst were the
> Cinelli 1A stem..absolutely dire and patchy...and the Stronglight
> cranks. Clearly cast or forged components have alloying agents not given
> to producing good finishes..or it was not possible to deposit a fine
> layer of pure aluminium on the surface to be anodised.
>
> The ultimate product of this series was a very mean time-trial bike with
> a lugless frame built of Ishiwata O19 aero tubing, that was finished to
> a "mid-black" by black chrome/nickel plating. The rest of the bike was a
> riot of dusky gold and deep bronze anodising.
> The bike was called for publicity purposes "Black Beauty"..and it really
> was...Last known owner was Jake Riviera, Elvis Costello's agent and
> one-time owner of Bob Jacksons and Hetchins.
>
> Norris Lockley...getting very trivial..Settle UK
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:39:52 -0800
> From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net>
> To: "john barron- velostuf" <jb@velostuf.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: RE: [CR]Campagnolo Seatpost Comparison
> Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90702CD77@hippy.home.here>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 6
>
>
> John Barron wrote:
> > I have created a page that compares a couple Campy seatposts.
> > Please review the pictures and let me know your thoughts.
> http://www.velostuf.com/
>
>
> I'm pretty sure those alloy saddle rail supports are from a Lambert.
> The uppers have been bent down from being over-tightened (and given how
> weak those Lambert parts are, almost any tightening is overtightening).
>
> I'm not qualified to comment on the type style of the lettering (never
> noticed those differences myself), so I must say I would just have
> assumed the lighter one is just a standard Superleggero.
>
> Mark Bulgier
> Seattle WA USA
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:42:14 -0500
> From: Howard Bishop <bishop2398@gmail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Anti seize & cottered cranks
> Message-ID: <dad5e40e0512180942ob972f8erd06cbbe126a1fcdf@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 7
>
> So I'm wondering, what would be wrong with putting some anti-seize
> (such as for spark plugs) on crank cotters before installing, then
> maybe a drop of lock-tite on the nut. Wouldn't this help with regular
> servicing, or is there something obvious I'm missing?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Howard Bishop,
> Columbus IN
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 10:15:39 -0800
> From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net>
> To: "Howard Bishop" <bishop2398@gmail.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: RE: [CR]Anti seize & cottered cranks
> Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90702CD78@hippy.home.here>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 8
>
> Howard Bishop wrote:
> > So I'm wondering, what would be wrong with putting some
> > anti-seize (such as for spark plugs) on crank cotters before
> > installing, then maybe a drop of lock-tite on the nut.
> > Wouldn't this help with regular servicing, or is there
> > something obvious I'm missing?
>
> Howard,
>
> This is a frequent topic on this and other bicycle lists and newsgroups
> - starts up a veritable holy war from time to time. I recommend you
> search the CR archives, and also check out this from the
> rec.bicycles.tech newsgroup FAQ:
> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/
>
> My own take it that since many people on both sides report having had no
> problems in "x" decades of doing it their way, then it can't be that big
> of a deal - either way works. I personally seem to notice more creaking
> noises from ungreased axle tapers, so I grease mine. Anti-seize would
> perhaps be even better but grease is always handy and works fine. Campy
> and other manufacturers have said to assemble them dry, but I have
> proven to my satisfaction that this is not necessary or desirable -
> greased works, possibly a little bit better than dry IMO.
>
> Locktite on the nut (or bolt, in the more common [CR] case of hollow
> axles) is not needed in my experience and could cause problems later.
> Never tried it though; if you try it let us know how it worked out for
> you. I recommend using dust caps to keep the bolts from turning, and as
> Jobst says in the FAQ lined above, don't keep tightening the bolts -
> they naturally will be a bit looser after riding, but you must leave
> them that way. They are not looser from turning; it is because the
> cranks have squirmed a bit farther up the taper, balancing out the force
> between the bolt head and the taper. Continually tightening them runs
> the cranks too far up the tapers. This is true whether greased or dry.
>
> Mark Bulgier
> Seattle WA USA
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 13:57:54 -0500
> From: "Howard Darr" <hdarr@localnet.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]mystery simplex
> Message-ID: <001c01c60404$f4eb9d20$cf419942@D1S2F761>
> References: <001f01c60392$e0e80b50$6401a8c0@Velostuf>
> Content-Type: text/plain;format=flowed;charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 9
>
> I asked earlier this week what these were. Please, I was hoping to know.
>
> 7205434984 = ebay #
>
> howard darr
> Clymer PA
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:05:53 -0800
> From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net>
> To: "Howard Bishop" <bishop2398@gmail.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: RE: [CR]Anti seize & cottered cranks
> Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90702CD79@hippy.home.here>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 10
>
> Boy do I feel dumb - I see now he was talking about cotters, not
> cotterless! Apologies to all.
>
> Mark Bulgier
> Seattle WA USA
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:23:11 -0500
> From: oroboyz@aol.com
> To: hdarr@localnet.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]mystery simplex
> Message-ID: <8C7D21F9E9F3E7F-1FB4-4569@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com>
> In-Reply-To: <001c01c60404$f4eb9d20$cf419942@D1S2F761>
> References: <001f01c60392$e0e80b50$6401a8c0@Velostuf>
> <001c01c60404$f4eb9d20$cf419942@D1S2F761>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 11
>
> << I asked earlier this week what these were. Please, I was hoping to
> know.
>
> 7205434984 = ebay # >>
>
> Hi Howard:
> Not sure but they look to be a last ditch effort at trying to revive a
> sinking ship.... My guess is end of era.
>
> Dale Brown
> cycles de ORO, Inc
> 1410 Mill Street
> Greensboro, NC 27408 USA
> 336-274-5959
> http://www.cyclesdeoro.com
> http://www.classicrendezvous.com
> Giant, Specialized, Bianchi, Felt, Orbea, Litespeed, Kuota, Argon 18,
> Colnago, Landshark, Townie and other exotica.
> Member, board of directors, National Bicycle Dealers Association
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Darr <hdarr@localnet.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 13:57:54 -0500
> Subject: [CR]mystery simplex
>
> I asked earlier this week what these were. Please, I was hoping to
> know.
>
> 7205434984 = ebay #
>
> howard darr
> Clymer PA
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:24:38 +0000
> From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: Howard Darr <hdarr@localnet.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]mystery simplex
> Message-ID: <BFCB67F5.5566A%hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
> In-Reply-To: <001c01c60404$f4eb9d20$cf419942@D1S2F761>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 12
>
> A cheap set from the late 1980s - these came out about year I think
before
> Simplex introduced indexed gears at the 1989 Paris show...
>
> Hilary Stone
>
> Bristol, England
>
> > From: "Howard Darr" <hdarr@localnet.com>
> > Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 13:57:54 -0500
> > To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Subject: [CR]mystery simplex
> >
> > I asked earlier this week what these were. Please, I was hoping to
know.
> >
> > 7205434984 = ebay #
> >
> > howard darr
> > Clymer PA
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:44:38 +0100
> From: "Olof Stroh" <olof@stroh.nu>
> To: "Hilary Stone" <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>,
> "Howard Darr" <hdarr@localnet.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]mystery simplex
> Message-ID: <004901c6040b$7c979ca0$0300a8c0@olof>
> References: <BFCB67F5.5566A%hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: Olof Stroh <olof@stroh.nu>
> Message: 13
>
>
> Hilary Stone answered Howard Darr
>
> > A cheap set from the late 1980s - these came out about year I think
> before
> > Simplex introduced indexed gears at the 1989 Paris show...
> >
>
> > >
> > > I asked earlier this week what these were. Please, I was hoping to
> know.
> > >
> > > 7205434984 = ebay #
>
> Yep. I bought my daughter a white Meral with these - all white you know
> - at the time. Curiosity not suitable for actual use. _Everything_ was
> flexible.
>
> Olof Stroh
> Uppsala Sweden
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 36, Issue 91
> *************************************************