Would anyone know which is the earlier of the two types of Record crankset with the raised pedal lip and dust caps?
- The type where the back of the spider is flat, or, - the raised back
Thanks
Lewis Ting
Chicago, Illinois
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> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Vintage, Bobbish, KOF, Fixed Gear Ride North of
> Baltimore on Saturday, July 16 (Daniel Artley)
> 2. Re: Re:British Isles (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos)
> 3. RE: eBay outing.. 3Rensho 56 cm & other frames (some not on
> topic!) (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos)
> 4. Re: Re:British Isles
> 5. Falcon Merckx (NIGEL LAND)
> 6. Vintage mountain bikes (First Flight Bicycles)
> 7. Re: Re:British Isles (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:15:04 -0400
> From: "Daniel Artley" <dartley@co.ba.md.us>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Cc: gbrandon@marylandgeneral.org
> Cc: Philip.C.Hack@constellation.com
> Cc: azureblue@aol.com
> Cc: gdgentry@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [CR]Vintage, Bobbish, KOF, Fixed Gear Ride North of
> Baltimore on Saturday, July 16
> Message-ID: <s2ca95f2.043@inet_gw.noc.co.ba.md.us>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Precedence: list
> Message: 1
>
> Just a reminder that I've got a vintage ride going off Saturday after
> next. A good number of people are already coming, there should be some
> nice bikes and the ride is pretty. Please RSVP if you're coming to give
> me a proper head count. Here's basically the original posting:
>
>>>> "Daniel Artley" <dartley@co.ba.md.us> 06/09/05 9:46 AM >>>
> I'm hosting a bike ride and get together at my house in Parkton, North of
> Baltimore, on Saturday, July 16. The ride should go off around 10:00 am
> with people invited to show up early. I'll be doing hot dogs on the
> grill, have some beer and sodas and a few sides. People are welcome to
> bring some kind of pot luck if they wish.
>
> Bring your classic bike(s), Bobbish, Fixed Gear or Keeper of the Flame.
> And if you do have a few classics, bring more than one. It'll be safe
> during the ride, and there will be people who appreciate seeing them.
> We'll spread 'em out on the lawn and deck after the ride. You might wish
> to bring bike stands. I'd recommend the fixed ride to strong riders or
> low gears, and for those on multi speed bikes not used to hills, a pretty
> low gear. The roads are familiar to the local racers, so gear
> accordingly.
>
>
> This year's ride will be a different route than last year, a bit easier,
> around 25 miles, and what Ken Sanford describes as fixed gear
> "unfriendly".
> It's as easy as I can get it and still be on quiet roads, but it really
> is pretty hilly around here. The ride's a bit over 25 miles with
> approximately 1200 feet of climb. The steeper hills are pretty short and
> there are more grade breaks early in the ride, but the scenery really is
> worth it!!! Northern Baltimore County has some of the prettiest riding
> anywhere. The last few miles are pretty easy and that the climb at the
> beginning last year is this year's finish. I recommend brakes on your
> fixer, but that's really up to you.
>
> I'm expecting a social pace, but the group always seems to split up. The
> cue sheet will be a bit more descriptive this year for those not using
> bike computers or cyclometers.
>
> The Tour de France will be on the tube as well with the first stage of the
> Pyrenne's on tap. From the Tour's website: "Phase Three commences with a
> hard stage on Saturday, July 16, from Agde to Ax-3 Domaines via the Port
> de Pailheres and finishes atop the Plateau de Bonascre, where Colombia
> Felix Cardenas won in 2001."
>
> Please RSVP off list to let me know how many people to expect, so that I
> can plan accordingly. And I can send directions for anyone who wishes,
> Mapquest is notorious for screwing it up when coming from the south of us.
> This is our third get together in July now and they've been a blast.
> Hope you can come!
>
> Keep those wheels spinning!
>
> Dan Artley
> Parkton, Maryland
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 11:28:05 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> To: OROBOYZ@aol.com, StuartMX4@aol.com,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re:British Isles
> Message-ID: <20050705182805.4978.qmail@web81005.mail.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <64.587af61f.2ffc1bdc@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 2
>
> I think that section has been called variously Great Britain, British
> Isles and United Kingdom and maybe even England over the life of the CR
> site.
>
> British Isles covers the islands of Great Britain and Ireland and maybe
> the smaller islands as well, but is politically incorrect, as the Irish
> Republic is no longer "British" and some there probably resent being
> referred to as such, just as Arabs resent the phrase "Persian Gulf",
> preferring "Arabian Gulf", which no doubt the Iranians resent.
>
> I think there are two (almost) proper terms: "Great Britain & Ireland"
> i.e. Great Britain = England, Scotland, Wales, and maybe Cornwall is
> separate from England, while Ireland = Northern Ireland plus the Irish
> Republic.
>
> Alternatively, "United Kingdom & Irish Republic" This groups Northern
> Ireland politically with Great Britain in the United Kingdom rather than
> geographically with the Irish Republic (Eire).
>
> I take it from Stuart's post that the Channel Islands and Isle of Man are
> not technically part of the UK, but probably few bikes have been built
> there, plus one would think those involved would cut us Yanks at least a
> bit of slack in not having to split hairs that finely.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Houston, TX
>
>
> OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 7/5/2005 1:02:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> StuartMX4@aol.com writes:
>
> << I see that the Classic Rendezvous entry has changed from the British
> Isles
> to the United Kingdom. Does that mean that no cycles have ever been made
> in
> the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man? There is no entry for Eire who are
> not
> part of the United Kingdom and would be offended by inclusion as part of
> the
> British Isles. Have they never built bicycles?
> I only ask in the interests of accuracy and completeness.
>
> Stuart Tallack in England >>
>
>
> Hi Stuart:
> Arggh. I see your point(s).
> So, what should I do? Any ideas appreciated..
> These sorts of differentiation are not my area of expertise.
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, NC USA
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 11:43:23 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Ted E. Baer" <wickedsky@sbcglobal.net>,
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, OROBOYZ@aol.com,
> dbilenkey@sympatico.ca
> Subject: RE: [CR]eBay outing.. 3Rensho 56 cm & other frames (some not on
> topic!)
> Message-ID: <20050705184323.34485.qmail@web81007.mail.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <20050705172443.49279.qmail@web80602.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 3
>
> I think this is simply a reflection of the fact that the United States has
> for two centuries had a unified national market which Europe is only now
> achieving. It is always easier to ship with familar address conventions
> and size and weight limits and known rate schedules and receive payment in
> one's own currency. The US is such a huge market, that sellers here can
> be "lazy" in this respect and still tap a market they feel is more than
> adequate. Those in most other nations are more internationally oriented,
> not because they are "smarter", but simply out of necessity, as they felt
> the size of their own national markets (before the advent of the EEC then
> EU) were not adequate to their needs.
>
> I suspect one may have seen a similar thing historically in the British
> Empire/ Commonwealth in that many goods were more likely to move between
> UK and Canada, or even Australia, than between UK and the geographically
> much closer continental Europe.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Houston, TX
>
>
> "Ted E. Baer" <wickedsky@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> DALE--THE FOLLOWING IS IN NO WAY RELATED TO YOU; (as I
> looked at your auctions and it appears you are selling
> primarily new frames.) And yes, shipping frames
> abroad is often more work that it's
> worth............unless you happen to be selling a
> Rene Herse.
>
> This is merely a follow-up to a subject of "not
> shipping out of the United States" that David Bilenkey
> brought up:
>
> I'm always amazed at folks who are selling vintage
> bicycle parts but who REFUSE to ship outside of the
> United States. In my opinion, these people are either
> mentally challenged, do not like money, ..........OR
> BOTH.
>
> I win all sorts of auctions under my pseudo-ebay
> name(s) from sellers with the "Freedom Fries" seller
> mentality. The item is then shipped to the big "blue
> state" of California, put back up for auction, and
> promptly shipped overseas.
>
> The irony of it all is that 95% of the time the item
> that the U.S. seller is offering to the U.S. market
> ONLY is made either in Italy or
> France....................
>
> 'Your emotions make you a monster.'
> -Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedy's
>
> Ted E. Baer
> Drinking my prune juice in
> Palo Alto, CA
>
>
>
>
> --- David Bilenkey wrote:
>
>> Dale,
>>
>> Is there a reason you won't ship outside of the
>> States?
>>
>> David
>> --
>> David Bilenkey
>> Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
>> dbilenkey@sympatico.ca
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
>> > [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On
>> Behalf Of
>> > oroboyz@aol.com
>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 1:19 AM
>> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> > Subject: [CR]eBay outing.. 3Rensho 56 cm & other
>> frames (some
>> > not on topic!)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> http://ebay.com/
>> > sZbigring135
>> >
>> > Seller is "bigring135" (Close friend to cycles de
>> ORO)
>> >
>> > Items include:
>> >
>> > - Filet brazed "Routens ala GT", 54 cm... item #
>> 7166071247
>> >
>> > - 3Rensho SE Export, 56 cm... item #7167524056
>> >
>> > - Match made( Curt Goodrich, Kurt Pacenti)
>> Paramount, 53.5
>> > cm... item #
>> > 7167315628
>> >
>> > - Waterford 1200 Reynolds 753, 56 cm... item
>> #7167314769
>> >
>> > and others I dare not mention upon fear of being
>> booted ...
>> >
>> > Dale Brown
>> > Greensboro, NC USA
>> > http://www.cyclesdeoro.com
>> > http://www.classicrendezvous.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:43:06 -0400
> From: julians@optonline.net
> To: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: StuartMX4@aol.com
> Cc: OROBOYZ@aol.com
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re:British Isles
> Message-ID: <95e779b853.9b85395e77@optonline.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
> Precedence: list
> Message: 4
>
>>From encyclopedia.com:
>
> "Officially United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,
> constitutional monarchy, off W Europe. The country is often referred to
> simply as Britain. Technically, Great Britain comprises England, Wales and
> Scotland on the island of Great Britain....
>
> United Kingdom includes Great Britain as well as Northern Ireland on the
> island of Ireland. The Isle of Man, in the Irish Sea and the Channel
> Islands, in the English Channel, are dependencies of the crown, with their
> own systems of government. "
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Tuesday, July 5, 2005 2:28 pm
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re:British Isles
>
>> I think that section has been called variously Great Britain,
>> British Isles and United Kingdom and maybe even England over the
>> life of the CR site.
>>
>> British Isles covers the islands of Great Britain and Ireland and
>> maybe the smaller islands as well, but is politically incorrect,
>> as the Irish Republic is no longer "British" and some there
>> probably resent being referred to as such, just as Arabs resent
>> the phrase "Persian Gulf", preferring "Arabian Gulf", which no
>> doubt the Iranians resent.
>>
>> I think there are two (almost) proper terms: "Great Britain &
>> Ireland" i.e. Great Britain = England, Scotland, Wales, and maybe
>> Cornwall is separate from England, while Ireland = Northern
>> Ireland plus the Irish Republic.
>>
>> Alternatively, "United Kingdom & Irish Republic" This groups
>> Northern Ireland politically with Great Britain in the United
>> Kingdom rather than geographically with the Irish Republic (Eire).
>>
>> I take it from Stuart's post that the Channel Islands and Isle of
>> Man are not technically part of the UK, but probably few bikes
>> have been built there, plus one would think those involved would
>> cut us Yanks at least a bit of slack in not having to split hairs
>> that finely.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry Moos
>> Houston, TX
>>
>>
>> OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:
>> In a message dated 7/5/2005 1:02:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> StuartMX4@aol.com writes:
>>
>> << I see that the Classic Rendezvous entry has changed from the
>> British
>> Isles
>> to the United Kingdom. Does that mean that no cycles have ever
>> been made in
>> the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man? There is no entry for Eire
>> who are
>> not
>> part of the United Kingdom and would be offended by inclusion as
>> part of
>> the
>> British Isles. Have they never built bicycles?
>> I only ask in the interests of accuracy and completeness.
>>
>> Stuart Tallack in England >>
>>
>>
>> Hi Stuart:
>> Arggh. I see your point(s).
>> So, what should I do? Any ideas appreciated..
>> These sorts of differentiation are not my area of expertise.
>>
>> Dale Brown
>> Greensboro, NC USA
>> _______________________________________________
>> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> http://www.bikelist.org/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> http://www.bikelist.org/
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:44:51 +0100
> From: "NIGEL LAND" <ndland@btinternet.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Falcon Merckx
> Message-ID: <004f01c58191$a5db9780$18d68351@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: NIGEL LAND <ndland@btinternet.com>
> Message: 5
>
> So, my first foray, in earnest, into this august forum. Falcon had an
> agreement with Merckx c.1972/74, which was based on a price per transfer
> - £1 per set. This was like a royalty. Frank Clements agreed the deal
> and then Ernie (ever optimistic) doubled the quantity. I have several
> photos of Eddy and Co visiting the Falcon factory in Barton and I am
> told he was quite happy with the quality. While my main interest is
> writing a history of the Elswick-Hopper company, it inevitably impacts
> on Coventry Eagle/Falcon, as they moved to Barton in 1968. I have no
> evidence that Falcon cheated on materials as Dale suggests, though I
> agree that Ernie was a wheeler dealer. Perhaps he, or others can
> substantiate this claim of Falcon 'lead pipe' Merckx frames?
> I would also be interested in hearing from subscribers off-list, of any
> Falcon or Elswick-Hopper bikes with frame numbers. I am confident with
> dating E-H frames but struggle with Falcon.
>
> Nigel Land
>
> In a message dated 7/5/2005 4:08:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> Carb7008@cs.com
> writes:
>
> << I'm a little suspicious anyway ever since I bought a "vintage" Eddy
> Merckx
> in
> the Bay Area for 80 bucks a couple of years ago when I was still green.
>
> After getting it home, I could find no provinance, frame weighed and
> "rang"
> like a
> lead pipe. I later learned that these counterfeits were/are common in
> Italy
> for the unsuspecting. Nice-lookin' frame though. >>
>
>
> More likely it was a Falcon made, legitimately licensed bike.
> In addition to full-on pro models, they also made a full range including
>
> cheap models, all the way down to $150 bicycles, and Falcon was famous
> for placing
> Reynolds 531 stickers on frames not necessarily having all that......
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, NC USA
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:48:12 -0400
> From: "First Flight Bicycles" <jeff@firstflightbikes.com>
> To: "classic list" <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Vintage mountain bikes
> Message-ID: <017f01c58192$19422220$0100a8c0@hppav>
> Content-Type: text/plain;format=flowed;charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: First Flight Bicycles <jeff@firstflightbikes.com>
> Message: 6
>
> Hey guys
> Been pretty busy and haven't really kept up all that well on the CR list
> but
> a customer told me that we were mentioned so I checked the archives.
>
> Since Dale asked, we do have a vintage mountain bike list. We have close
> to
> 250 members including Jim Merz, Scot Nicol, Jacquie Phelan, John
> Olsen........... I have kept it relatively quiet and traffic is at a nice
> reasonable level. If you are interested in the list, you can sign up @
> http://www.firstflightbikes.com/
> our
> bike histories. Many of our bikes are listed @
> http://www.firstflightbikes.com/
> them out.
>
> As a side note, the re-issue Klunkers have a Gary Fisher signature decal
> so
> make sure it is an actual signature.
>
> Now back to your regularly scheduled Masi-talk.
>
> Jeff Archer
> First Flight Bicycles
> 216 S. Center St.
> Statesville, NC 28677
> 704.878.9683
> jeff@firstflightbikes.com
> http://www.firstflightbikes.com
> Always looking for vintage mountain bikes/parts/literature
>
>
> ---
> [Pre-scanned for viruses by Internet America.]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 11:58:04 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> To: julians@optonline.net
> Cc: StuartMX4@aol.com
> Cc: OROBOYZ@aol.com
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re:British Isles
> Message-ID: <20050705185804.38965.qmail@web81001.mail.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <95e779b853.9b85395e77@optonline.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 7
>
> Yes, which I think means that either of my alternatives would be correct
> except for not technically covering the Isle of Man and the Channel
> Islands. I've heard of Manx cats and Manx sheep, but I must say I'm not
> aware of any Manx bikes.
>
> One might also protest that "United States" might not technically cover
> bikes built in Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, and American Samoa, but
> realistically that isn't a huge omission.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Houston, TX
>
> julians@optonline.net wrote:
>>From encyclopedia.com:
>
> "Officially United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,
> constitutional monarchy, off W Europe. The country is often referred to
> simply as Britain. Technically, Great Britain comprises England, Wales and
> Scotland on the island of Great Britain....
>
> United Kingdom includes Great Britain as well as Northern Ireland on the
> island of Ireland. The Isle of Man, in the Irish Sea and the Channel
> Islands, in the English Channel, are dependencies of the crown, with their
> own systems of government. "
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos
> Date: Tuesday, July 5, 2005 2:28 pm
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re:British Isles
>
>> I think that section has been called variously Great Britain,
>> British Isles and United Kingdom and maybe even England over the
>> life of the CR site.
>>
>> British Isles covers the islands of Great Britain and Ireland and
>> maybe the smaller islands as well, but is politically incorrect,
>> as the Irish Republic is no longer "British" and some there
>> probably resent being referred to as such, just as Arabs resent
>> the phrase "Persian Gulf", preferring "Arabian Gulf", which no
>> doubt the Iranians resent.
>>
>> I think there are two (almost) proper terms: "Great Britain &
>> Ireland" i.e. Great Britain = England, Scotland, Wales, and maybe
>> Cornwall is separate from England, while Ireland = Northern
>> Ireland plus the Irish Republic.
>>
>> Alternatively, "United Kingdom & Irish Republic" This groups
>> Northern Ireland politically with Great Britain in the United
>> Kingdom rather than geographically with the Irish Republic (Eire).
>>
>> I take it from Stuart's post that the Channel Islands and Isle of
>> Man are not technically part of the UK, but probably few bikes
>> have been built there, plus one would think those involved would
>> cut us Yanks at least a bit of slack in not having to split hairs
>> that finely.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry Moos
>> Houston, TX
>>
>>
>> OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:
>> In a message dated 7/5/2005 1:02:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> StuartMX4@aol.com writes:
>>
>> << I see that the Classic Rendezvous entry has changed from the
>> British
>> Isles
>> to the United Kingdom. Does that mean that no cycles have ever
>> been made in
>> the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man? There is no entry for Eire
>> who are
>> not
>> part of the United Kingdom and would be offended by inclusion as
>> part of
>> the
>> British Isles. Have they never built bicycles?
>> I only ask in the interests of accuracy and completeness.
>>
>> Stuart Tallack in England >>
>>
>>
>> Hi Stuart:
>> Arggh. I see your point(s).
>> So, what should I do? Any ideas appreciated..
>> These sorts of differentiation are not my area of expertise.
>>
>> Dale Brown
>> Greensboro, NC USA
>> _______________________________________________
>> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> http://www.bikelist.org/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> http://www.bikelist.org/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 31, Issue 16
> *************************************************
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