Well I certainly think 7 polka dot jerseys deserves some respect, I just agree with the CycleSport article that Virenque is not in a class with Bahamontes and Van Impe. I could speculate how much of Virenque's success was due to doping before he was caught, but then who know what Bahamontes and Van Impe might have been taking? Sometimes a rider is on the podium after narrowly losing a hotly contested Tour, and sometimes a rider is pushing all out to merely raise himself into 3rd, like Ulrich in the final week of this year'sTour. I would put Virenque's third more in the latter class, a great success just to make the podium, like Bobby Julich in 1998, but hardly a serious threat to win. After all, Rasmussen might have been third this year, had he not totally collapsed in the final time trial. Did that make him a genuine threat to win? Hardly. Certainly he forced Discovey Channel to take him seriously and mark him, but I think you could have gotten at least 50-1 odds from the London bookmakers on Rasmussen to win even after he moved into 3rd place.
BTW, I now realize why I neglected to mention Virenque's 7 jerseys originally. I was looking at the listing of polka-dot winners jerseys on the Torelli web sute, which lists Virenque in 3rd place with 5 jerseys. I guess Chairman Bill needs to update it. I guess one needs to use online data with caution. I found another site that liste Anquetil as only a 4-time winner of the TdF.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Houston, TX
loudeeter@aol.com wrote: Jerry, don't compound one mistake with another. Maybe you can't remember Virenque being a "serious" GC contender, but I certainly think that his being on the podium in 1996 would make most people think he was one. I believe anyone who stands on the podium of a race with the prestige of the Tour de France should be given a bit a respect. A little homework here please. Lou Deeter, Orlando FL
-----Original Message----- From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos To: bretthorton@thehortoncollection.com; ClassicRendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos Sent: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 05:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [CR]Obscure question of the day!
I stand corrected. Van Impe and Bahamontes shared the record until Virenque broke it. There was a CycleSport article last year about these guys, and the viewpoint of the article was that Virenque was not in the class with the other two, his 7 jerseys notwithstanding. That can always be debated, but I agree. If nothing else because both Bahamontes and Van Impe each won a Tour overall, and were GC contenders several other times. I don't ever remember Virenque being a serious GC contender, except maybe in the dreams of French media.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Houston, TX
Brett Horton wrote: I might be mistaken, but I thought a guy named Virenque holds the KOM title with 7, followed by Van Impe and Bahamontes at 6.
Were you perhaps speaking of number of days wearing the KOM jersey?
Brett Horton San Francisco, CA
Jerry Moos wrote: Lucien Van Impe, who holds the record for most TdF KoM jointly with Bahamontes, also (like Bahamontes) won the overall once.