Re: [CR]Re: Swiss Chese

(Example: Production Builders:Frejus)

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:18:00 -0500
From: "Angel Garcia" <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Swiss Chese
In-Reply-To: <>
References: <>

The modern version from Jonny Cycles at NAHBS 2/Jonny_Cycles_pierced_top_tube

Angel Garcia Verona, Italy

On 2/26/06, <> wrote:
> Those holes are indeed unlined thru and thru, but they are not
> unreinforced... if you'll look at the light reflections around the holes,
> as well as the
> thickness of the cutouts, one can see that it is not a plain tube edge
> there.
> It appears the holes were lined with something, or perhaps a bead of
> braze
> was added around the opening so the edges would not be so sharp.
> While we're discussing these Swiss cheese bikes, let's not forget
> this one...
> _
> (
> These slotted stays have no lining or reinforcement of any sort. And it
> is
> very hard to imagine a more minimal dropout or seatstay treatment. Or a
> bottom bracket with any less metal in it...
> Bob Hovey
> Columbus, GA
> In a message dated 2/26/2006 12:09:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> writes:
> John -
> Thank you very much for posting these pictures.
> Particularly from the shadows in the pix, I read these cut-outs as naked .
> That is, there do not seem to sleeves lining the holes, unlike (for
> example)
> the weird Pinos. This point is very important to me for a couple of
> reasons.
> First, I assert that this unreinforced style is an invitation to tube
> buckling, and general weakness and loss of rigidity. This is an
> experiment you can
> do at home, with a couple of plastic straws. Leave one alone, and slice
> edges
> off the other like the down tube of the Messori. One slice on each side
> will
> do, but have them reasonably long, like those on that bike. Set both up
> as
> cantilever beams sticking out over a table edge, with the same amount of
> overhang on each. Have the slots be the verticals. Now, hang weights
> (paper
> clips?) from the ends, and see what happens...
> Second, this inference was the basis for the disagreements about the Mas i
> belonging to a not-to-be-named ex CR member from Boston. I inferred that
> the
> chainstay cutouts were unlined, but the claim is made that they were
> indeed
> lined with steel tubing brazed in place. That would be much stronger
> than an
> unlined version, and only a little heavier than the original.
> thanks again,
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va.
> John Waner wrote:
> Thought I would share these pictures, they came from a acquaintance in
> Italy and have been informed that the bike is not for sale.
> I recall we had some pictures of a Masi that had similar treatment on
> the chain stays only, it has been suggested that this bike might have
> been the inspiration.
> I think the bike was made by a builder named Messori, this is all
> second hand information, I would never claim to be a wealth of cycling
> knowledge, just a student.
> John Waner
> Huntington Beach, CA.