RE: [CR]KOFs and the market.

(Example: Framebuilders:Mario Confente)

Subject: RE: [CR]KOFs and the market.
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:26:13 -0800
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Thread-Topic: [CR]KOFs and the market.
Thread-Index: AcZD8yNjpzH2pIjDTnyCjiypc4RSSgAH8JMw
From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net>
To: "P.C. Kohler" <kohl57@starpower.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>


Peter Kohler wrote:
> Now, I don't have a frame weight c. 1950 for Reynolds 531. So
> let's just assume (for no good reason) it's a full pound more
> than in 1980. Call it 7 1/4. But show me a c. 2006 KOF steel
> frame 21 1/2" that weighs half that and I'll eat it with mustard.

I made a few steel lugged frames in the 2.5 lb range and forks around 1 lb, that would put it about half your theoretical 7-1/4 lb (assuming your weights include forks?) I did that in the late 80s -early 90s, so I assume modern builders can match that - no? What say you, modern builders (or those who know what a light frame weighs these days)?

I agree with Peter that most high-end classic race frames were not that heavy - not near double what a PRACTICAL modern lightweight steel frame has to come in at. One website selling Pegoretti Luigino says the weight is 4.4 lb - but they don't say what frame size, and don't say whether that includes the fork. I'm pretty sure it doesn't, but even if it does that ain't half the weight of the classic racer. I bet many modern KOF frames are in fact heavier than many of the lightest classics.

Also, we should keep in mind that most riders can't reliably detect the difference in weight (while riding) unless it is well over 5 pounds, according to a test performed I believe by Jim Papadopoulos* (at least it was Jim who described the test and results to me). And the frame comfort factor due to light tubing alone is so overshadowed by fit, tires, geometry, saddle, handlebars etc (roughly in that order IMO) that the weight of the frame alone becomes pretty unimportant.

*Riders repeatedly rode up a steep hill, 12% I think it was, and were allowed to sit or stand. The same bike was used on each run, with either of two identical-looking weights in the water bottle cages, which were 5 lb apart. One guy always picked the light bike correctly in that test (though he never felt sure of his answer), but everyone else's accuracy was just what you'd get by random guessing.

Mark Bulgier
Seattle WA USA