Rob has a good point. I'm 55 years old. A five year wait for a new frame puts me in the "I don't know whether I'll even have knees" age. I mean, I haven't lived the California lifestyle that Chuck Schmidt has so I doubt I'll be riding 60 miles everyday like he does when I'm as old as he is now. :) And, while there are youngsters who have 1) a desire for a steel bike and 2) enough money to order a new one, my belief is that age of most of the members of this list is decidedly closer to 60 than to 30. Lou Deeter, Orlando FL
Basic Flying Rules: "Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there."
-----Original Message----- From: Robert D. Dayton,Jr. <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Sent: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:25:09 -0500 Subject: RE: [CR]re: KOFs and the market
I think one factor that hasn't been mentioned (maybe it has) that could really help KOF builders is turn around. Remember this is the USA. Immediate gratification counts a lot. You walk in a bike shop and see gleaming new technology and swipe the card and your riding. You want a custom KOF model and you're talking a year or two or three? Can you really wait that long? Isn't there some way to speed it up?
Rob Dayton Charlotte, NC USA
-----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of Roman Stankus Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:22 AM To: email@example.com; firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: RE: [CR]re: KOFs and the market
No, I haven't ridden a Pegoretti luigino. I did ride a very nice modern Waterford lugged steel bike with all Ergo stuff a couple of years ago..it was impressive. Does that count? But it was not as rewarding in general as my 1960s Pogliaghi road bike with the low bb shell, long wheelbase, and relaxed angles. It goes plenty fast, and it's just on rails even on the nastiest downhill. I have yet to ride a bike of it is as sheerly enjoyable to use. Old Masis come close.
Much of this ride-quality thing is a matter of taste...and the quick, upright frames of today certainly have a lively feel, but for all-around riding, I prefer the older geometries, when done by a master. Yeah, some can be a little too plushy for my taste..but the older, more moderate geometries when used by a Masi or a Pogliaghi or Cinelli seem like some kind of ideal.
After riding many different kinds of vintage road frames it seems to me that geometry plays a far more influencial role in the "ride" of the bike, than do relatively modest differences in materials.
Charles Andrews SoCal
Most of the modern builders are building with oversize lightweight heat treated tubing. Is this just a fad? I don't think so. I asked the following question on the framebuilders list: "Is there anything lost in ride quality by using the newer oversize lightweight tube sets?" The reply from Richard Sachs was "No - just weight". I respect his opinion on this issue completely.
If you like bikes with the old time religion geometry - get a modern builder to make you a bike like that. That's what Weigle is doing and they have been reviewed and written up as superlative rides. The quality of workmanship far exceeds a Pog (Don't get me wrong - I love my Pog too).
As far as "the newer upright geometry" - if you look at most modern off the rack go fast super light bikes - they are 73/73 angle bikes in a medium size with very slight variances. The ultra steep angles of the 80's-90's are gone. These off the racks bikes are pretty amazing in their own right - but completely different. New is good - old is good. Experience life - it's all good.
For the record, my Pog from the mid 70's has a steeper head angle than a lot of current modern bikes. After riding a number of bikes - within a range of appropriate frame geometries - they all ride great if they're built right.