Re: [CR]KOF Frames and Growing Old--aka I don't want to wait

(Example: Framebuilders:Richard Moon)

Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:26:45 -0800
Subject: Re: [CR]KOF Frames and Growing Old--aka I don't want to wait
To: Thomas Adams <thomasthomasa@yahoo.com>
From: "Brandon Ives" <brandon@ivycycles.com>
In-Reply-To: <20060310185451.88643.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
cc: loudeeter@aol.com
cc: loudeeter@aol.com

Yea multi-year wait lists are only applicable to less than 1% of builders. Also remember that if you're only building 25 frames a year it doesn't take too many orders to fill a 2 year list. My guess is there is literally a hand full of builders working that have multi-year waits and build more than 25 a year. When I was working at Bike Friday they had discovered that the perfect wait list is between 5-8 weeks. Shorter than that and people don't feel they're getting a truly custom product. Longer than that and people start thinking the wait is too long. We may not have been making "classic" bikes but they were all custom fit and hand-built. Sometimes we were rushing to keep the wait list under the 8 week mark and sometimes we were adding filler and demos to keep it over 5 weeks. best, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives just back from a sloppy snowy ride in Vancouver, B.C

On Friday, Mar 10, 2006, at 10:54 US/Pacific, Thomas Adams wrote:
> I don't think a 1-3 year wait is the general rule. Of course it
> varies from builder to builder, but my Goodrich took 4 months, the
> Landshark 3 months and a project I'm working on now is in it's 5th
> month but should be done soon. How many builders have multi year wait
> lists? Baylis, Sachs, Rivendell, Bohemian, and anyone else?
> (Obviously not Bruce Gordon, now's the time to jump in line!!!)
> Mercian, Bob Jackson, Franklin Frames (and no doubt many others) can
> ship you a custom frame in considerably under 6 months. I just spoke
> to Franklin, and they're at 3 months, and apologized for being so > long.
>
>
> Tom Adams, Shrewsbury NJ
>
> loudeeter@aol.com wrote:
> Rob has a good point. I'm 55 years old. A five year wait for a new
> frame puts me in the "I don't know whether I'll even have knees" age.
> I mean, I haven't lived the California lifestyle that Chuck Schmidt
> has so I doubt I'll be riding 60 miles everyday like he does when I'm
> as old as he is now. :) And, while there are youngsters who have 1) a
> desire for a steel bike and 2) enough money to order a new one, my
> belief is that age of most of the members of this list is decidedly
> closer to 60 than to 30. Lou Deeter, Orlando FL
>
>
> Basic Flying Rules: "Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go
> near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the
> appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It
> is much more difficult to fly there."
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert D. Dayton,Jr.
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:25:09 -0500
> Subject: RE: [CR]re: KOFs and the market
>
>
> I think one factor that hasn't been mentioned (maybe it has) that could
> really help KOF builders is turn around.
> Remember this is the USA. Immediate gratification counts a lot.
> You walk in a bike shop and see gleaming new technology and swipe the
> card
> and your riding.
> You want a custom KOF model and you're talking a year or two or three?
> Can you really wait that long?
> Isn't there some way to speed it up?
>
> Rob Dayton
> Charlotte, NC
> USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Roman
> Stankus
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:22 AM
> To: chasds@mindspring.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: RE: [CR]re: KOFs and the market
>
>
> Charles wrote:
>
> No, I haven't ridden a Pegoretti luigino. I did ride a very nice modern
> Waterford lugged steel bike with all Ergo stuff a couple of years
> ago..it
> was
> impressive. Does that count? But it was not as rewarding in general as
> my
> 1960s
> Pogliaghi road bike with the low bb shell, long wheelbase, and relaxed
> angles.
> It goes plenty fast, and it's just on rails even on the nastiest
> downhill.
> I have yet to ride a bike of it is as sheerly enjoyable to use. Old
> Masis
> come close.
>
> Much of this ride-quality thing is a matter of taste...and the quick,
> upright frames
> of today certainly have a lively feel, but for all-around riding, I
> prefer
> the older
> geometries, when done by a master. Yeah, some can be a little too
> plushy
> for
> my taste..but the older, more moderate geometries when used by a Masi
> or a
> Pogliaghi or Cinelli seem like some kind of ideal.
>
> After riding many different kinds of vintage road frames it seems to
> me that
> geometry plays a far more influencial role in the "ride" of the bike,
> than
> do relatively
> modest differences in materials.
>
> Charles Andrews
> SoCal
>
> Most of the modern builders are building with oversize lightweight heat
> treated tubing. Is this just a fad? I don't think so. I asked the
> following
> question on the framebuilders list: "Is there anything lost in ride
> quality
> by using the newer oversize lightweight tube sets?" The reply from
> Richard
> Sachs was "No - just weight". I respect his opinion on this issue
> completely.
>
> If you like bikes with the old time religion geometry - get a modern
> builder
> to make you a bike like that. That's what Weigle is doing and they
> have been
> reviewed and written up as superlative rides. The quality of
> workmanship far
> exceeds a Pog (Don't get me wrong - I love my Pog too).
>
> As far as "the newer upright geometry" - if you look at most modern
> off the
> rack go fast super light bikes - they are 73/73 angle bikes in a
> medium size
> with very slight variances. The ultra steep angles of the 80's-90's are
> gone. These off the racks bikes are pretty amazing in their own right
> - but
> completely different. New is good - old is good. Experience life -
> it's all
> good.
>
> For the record, my Pog from the mid 70's has a steeper head angle than
> a lot
> of current modern bikes. After riding a number of bikes - within a
> range of
> appropriate frame geometries - they all ride great if they're built
> right.
>
> Roman Stankus
> Atlanta, Ga.
>
>
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