Re: [CR]KOF: Rivendell is not the new Holy reDeemer.

(Example: Racing:Wayne Stetina)

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:52:42 -0800 (PST)
From: "Joe Starck" <>
Subject: Re: [CR]KOF: Rivendell is not the new Holy reDeemer.
In-Reply-To: <>

--- "" <> wrote:
> Michael,
> A well thought out prediction and many obvious
> observations about Rivend
> ell and their marketing and whatnot; but I suspect
> you will be wrong abo
> ut the future collectability of the frames. Without
> the original paintjo
> b, a Rivendell will fade into obscurity and be
> recognizable only by the
> hedious lug patterns; not enough to make it a
> collectable in the future
> compared to many other frames being built today. The
> craftsmanship is up
> there with many of the "custom" builders who are
> just using IC lugs and
> putting nice bikes together; but there is plenty of
> that out there, mos
> t with better styling than Riv (like Dave Kirk for
> example). I'm not say
> ing a Riv will have no value in the future; but I
> heartily disagree that
> they have what it takes to top the collectable
> market in the future.
> Needless to say, many may disagree with me. Perhaps
> hedious lugs will be
> hip in the far distant future. Fine by me. It's
> just my professional op
> inion based on my experience as a restorer and
> collector-type person.
> Nothing personal against Rivendell; they got a great
> thing going and wha
> t they do benifits all of us if we choose to
> capitalize on it.
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA

Brian, I disagree; there is a far greater likelihood that a number of Rivendells will be sought after in the future that will top "other frames being built today," that will top pre-'84s, and that will top yours.

You will be called to task, Brian,at future show gatherings to explicate "hideous" regarding Rivendell lugs; and your justifications will be judged. Are you prepared?

Rivendell will be remembered as a company that did more with lugs than any other company during a dry era of steel framebuilding.

If the current owners of custom Rivendells are content with them, then nothing will be on the market for awhile.

Everything that went into custom Rivendells and continues to go into custom Rivendells matters, including the "original paintjob." I doubt though, that a Riv' re-painted by Weigle would hold it back a nickel at auction time.

Heres two asides I gotta get outta me:

I think a number of Riv' owners will sooner or later pop for upgrading from the old-style stems -- if that's what they're sportin' now -- to fitter, more frame-complementarian stems of up-sloping extensions and shorter quills. That old stuff just doesn't fly on the upslope top-tube line typical of Riv's.

And then there's the Rivendell position on the bicycle. I don't like my ass that far behind the pedals, and consequently, I don't like my torso that upright and I don't like my hands to be that high. Roundabout 73-74 degree seat angles are where it's at for me, and I've no interest in bags & tents. So Rivendell-style riding does not include me. I'd either be on a Schwinn Panther-style cruiser designed with more upright angles than found on usual cruisers, or I'd be fully costumed on an all-out racing Nagasawa -- or maybe a Holland or maybe a Sachs if I can choose the decals. But the Grant/Riv positioning is not for me; obviously it suits others.

Back to "hideous." I've seen plenty of your personal bikes, and the ones with three/four color paint schemes wherein you choose the right shades of two or three blues or two or three greens are certainly timeless and get my vote for the intended effect. As for the lug work, let's take JB's Baylis-lugged Holland as an example. When was it that you were written about as the "gingerbread man?" I can appreciate this kind of lugwork, but it doesn't get my vote as the top banana stuff. Unroll that lug and it's too two-dimensional and too common, comparatively. I mean, look at the positve & negative designs in all things Persian/Arabesque, or look at Japanese aesthetic purities. Now look at JB's lugs. Whatcha got? It's all good, as some say, and they're all right, but mine eyes have traveled the timeline and they seek a bit more o' the third dimension with greater concentration of a unified spirit -- an original outcome -- not the same ol' long hours of cuttin' puzzles in lugs & yet another spade, heart, club, diamond. My critique here of your work is only conincidentally in tandem with your dismissal of Rivendells, for I know I've said words to the same effect as "hideous" about other's work, and I figure if it is it is. I don't agree with that label about the Riv "Papillon" lugs though, but neither can I get jazzed about your lug-carving. If you upped the ante on the lugs as I stated I seek above, then we'd have something to talk about.

Joe Starck Madison, WI USA (Coming to a mailing list near you: Why I think Grant Petersen is a Vampire, and why I'd rather he learn to live more on his own blood and less on others' blood, than be exposed to daylight.)

> -- "Michael Wilkinson" <> wrote:
> Don made some interesting observations, Joe's
> comments about American Ic
> on
> not withstanding. To me it sounds a lot like
> Rivendell's model, tongue
> firmly in cheek!
> Rivendell fights, survives and becames a market
> 'power' based on style.
> All the while this was going on, gifted KOF Stylists
> like Joe Stark and
> Curt
> Goodrich were working on customs for Rivendell.
> The customizers fed off the Rivendell marketing
> machine, and Rivendell f
> ed
> off the customizers effectively creating concept
> bike after concept bike
> that stimulated new interest in Rivendell.
> Rivendell encouraged the customizers.
> Rivendel fosters iBOB, the Bobish Owners Group, that
> promotes fanatical
> consumer loyalty.
> Rivendell has competitors, bike makers that make a
> great opponent/villai
> n,
> because of the lack of soul and simple design in
> their bikes.
> Rivendells styling kept the emphasis on simple
> paint, ornamaent, chrome
> and
> detail.
> Rivendell promotes accessories out the kazoo.
> Rivendell pursues, cultivates and promotes the gotta
> have it factor.
> Ok, seriously. This is why I think down the road
> Rivendell will be the m
> ost
> collectable of the KOF bikes out there ;)
> Mike Wilkinson
> Castle Rock, CO
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