Re: RE: [CR]Ebay: Waller; school me...

Example: Framebuilding:Restoration

In-Reply-To: <>
From: "neil foddering" <>
Subject: Re: RE: [CR]Ebay: Waller; school me...
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 20:17:20 +0000

Hello Frank,

Thanks for your most interesting email.

The Kingsland is the one with the curved seat tube stays, and the Kingsbury has the straight ones. I own the Kingsbury on the Classic Rendezvous website - not the gorgeous restored black one, but the rather scruffy frame and forks in the other photos!

I acquired it last August at the Veteran-Cycle Club annual Club Camp in Suffolk. Bill, one of the guys I knew when I lived in Suffolk came along on one of the rides, and after the ride, he was swinging a rusty Durax crankset (as you do). I asked him what he was going to do with it, and he told me it was for his Waller. I told him that I'd wanted a Waller for some time, and, if he was prepared to sell it, did anyone have first refusal? He told me that someone had offered him £11 (!) but that he wasn't keen to sell it. I then told him that I had a rough 1939 Baines VS37 which was too small for me, and would he be prepared to trade, since his Waller was 24", and Bill agreed. He also told me that I was just in time, since he was going to take a hacksaw to the frame, and shortem it so that he could ride it, something he'd already done with a racing tricycle!!!

I also like the unusual frames. I have a Bates, a Granby Taperlite, a Gillott Taper Tube and an A Genner (not Dan Genner) Excel. Could this have been the type frame you mention with stays meeting the top tube, or was yours perhaps the Hellen, after which, I believe, the hellenic stays on the Hetchins were named? To view the Excel, see:

I have 4 frames away for enamelling, the Excel, the Waller, a 1939 R O Harrison Continetal, and an Ephgrave No 1. Awaiting attention are a Rotrax Concours, a 1937 R O Harrison Super Circuit, a 1930's RRA, a 1936 Paragon, a 1963 H R Morris and one or two others. I'm just working out what I'll have to sell to finance all of this!

Best regards,

Neil Foddering Weymouth, England

>From: <>
>To: "neil foddering" <>
>CC: <>
>Subject: Re: RE: [CR]Ebay: Waller; school me...
>Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 18:09:02 +0100
>Dear Neil,
>That Waller of Mr.Stone's was indeed the bargain of the century. I thought
>the Americans or Japanese collectors would have snapped it up, just shows.
>Expect they prefer the Italian gas pipe stuff. The name Fiorelli still
>makes me shudder frightful frames from the same period.
>I was in our local lightweight shop the other day and they quoted £265.00
>plus VAT for a similar re-enamel to the Kingsland, the only difference was
>the Stratton quoted had chrome tips.
>I started club cycling and racing in the 50's and I raced on most of these
>funny frames having owned some and borrowed others.
>Had a WRB Baines International TT model a fabulous machine and as you are
>probably aware Trevor Jarvis still makes this unique design. Bob Cary rode
>one as a Pro, what a rider.
>Have ridden Waller's both the Kingsland and Kingsbury one of which has
>curved tubes can't remember which now. A thing made by Higgins called a
>Calleva a real rarity. The Galibier, Bates Brothers, Hetchins and a maker
>from Hackney who made a frame with seat stays that met the top-tube bit
>like a modern GT.
>Out of all of them the Baines was the best SWB in my opinion, the Wallers
>were very lively but had a little bit to much frame whip for my liking.
>Of course it is hard to compare like to like because race conditions are
>not the same from week to week but have ridden my Baines on a float day
>and a curved tube Waller on a float on the same course. I was a minute
>quicker on the Baines both rides done with the same gear and similar
>equipment and both on Michelin "50's".
>I would say the stiffness of the Baines frame resulted in more energy or
>effort being transmitted to the pedals. Sure all that frame whip is a
>hindrance to power although the bike seems wonderfully and lively to ride.
>My PB look positively pedestrian by todays standards but we were rationed,
>that's my excuse.
>I am no expert but there are plenty on the list who are.
>Very much enjoyed your posting and it's very reassuring that there are some
>British cycling enthusiasts who are actually documenting all this stuff.
>It makes me so annoyed that the makers names become legends but the artisan
>builders who made them in the workshops are forgotten.
>Classic example Alf only had Jack building his frames what about all the
>others who worked there?
>Kindest regards Frank



>Frank Cohen Hoxton UK