hey tom, lighten up....who's carpet did i take a dump on anyway???...i found this list much by accident involveing a search for a Dawes Double Blue....the prettiest bike i ever saw.... so i arrived here at CR through the back door maybe 3 weeks ago....and please forgive me but i jumped in.....the ONLY image of any bicycle i have seen while here was one of "the tree lined finish" that Aldo graciously resent to me w/ hilite so i could click on that to open it........thank you Aldo....as far as a frame that might be a track something or other was MY two cents without the benefit of any pictures and from a description thrown out by someone....was i wrong to comment? no....was i wrong about said frame? sounds like maybe i was.....what would you like me to do tom, commit suicide? no can do, i'm waiting for my son to make me a grandfather..... and tom, i hardly name dropped....but if you'd like me to do so i know.........boreing! ...but my humble little background in bikes allowed me to see literally everything that came thru the door for 12 years...69 to 81....those were some good years tom...not to far removed from the 50's so that alot of sweet machines were being riden to the front door and walked inside by characters that outshined their steeds....no internet back then to look stuff up....you saw what you saw...and as i said, like the others who worked behind the scenes, worked on tons of bicycles....fixed em, got to know em, learned why we all love em.....otherwise we wouldn't all be here typeing to each other in the middle of the night......sorry dale, i didn't mean to dump on your carpet.....but hey, why didn't dale attack me? why was it you tommy? maybe dale understood the manner of speach and took it for what it was worth....2 cents... you needn't lighten up on me tom, i have big shoulders...i can take what you've got... remember, you only get one chance to make a first impression and you didn't seem to like my style and had to come take a shot at me for perceived slights to some of the lists esteemed members...your a good soldier tom....and "shop rat" tom, those were the guys at the shop down the street....shop rats don't own and operate legitamate business'...we spoke campagnolo at my shops....greg lemond is an odd name for you to drop....he was kind of a sulking loner...a whiner....he could really push the pedals for sure but a guy well known for being out for himself....he bitched about hinaut and never gave credit to his team.....kind of unappealing to me...Raymond Poulidor was more my kind of guy, the "eternal second".. i saw him ride the worlds in montreal...merckx, gimundi, they were all there..... so tom, i'm sure we'll cross paths again, maybe even cross swords again....but for me, the slow typist that i am, this is about all the ink i'm going to waste on this matter...i'm sure i'll get to know more about you all as i read what you have to say, and that's about it....save this, judge not least ye be judged.....i judged no one, i jumped in and used an old expression while doing so ( referring to a little spat going on between a couple of esteemed CR members, and actually directed to george who seemed miffed by the "i know more than you know" nature of their words)....a grown up would know the difference.....seems like you're the one who needs to grow up a little. have a pleasnt day up there in bethlehem...that's a nice little town. charlie flaherty baltimore maryland PS: might i have met your dad at woodstock in 69??? i was there hangin' w/ jerry garcia....but that's for another time.