Robert,
I hope you don't expect a reply that's as long as your
posting. Suffice it to say, there probably were not many
instances of delamination. In fact, when I experienced the
problem, I thought my experience was rather unique.
Furthermore, the separation was only partial, and occurred on
only one out of four brake pads.
Plus, I agree that these pads were far superior to anything
else available, at least interms of stopping power. By the
way, initially, I repaired the offending pad with cyanoacrylate
cement - also known as Krazy Glue, although I think I used
Aron-Alpha brand - and it held for quite some time.
So as far as reputation is concerned, it doesn't take much
to have one tarnished. Let's say that only one percent of
these pads had a problem. This gets back to Scott-Mathauser -
and being a conscientious sort - they apprise trade
publications and bike shop owners to look out for the defective
pads. So this information is forwarded to the mechanics who
now apprise the bike-mechanics-informal-network that "all those
finned S-M pads are no good."
Isn't that typically how those things get started?
Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virgnia (USA)
> Fred,
>
> I have no reason to doubt that there were delamination
> occurrences inasmuch
> as I have read the rare first hand accounts of others some of
> whom I know
> well enough, if only by reputation, to hold in high esteem
> with respect to
> their cycling experiences. But for me, the question remains:
> WHY did it
> happen?
>
> Back when I first became aware of their existence in 1976, I
> affixed a set
> of these Scott / Mathauser finned and curved brake shoes and
> pads onto my
> 1973 Gitane Tour de France whose MAFAC Competition calipers
> had already been
> outfitted with a homemade brake bridge or "booster". I did
> so because I was
> keenly aware of how important those brakes were to my health,
> well being,
> and general competitiveness (...regardless of that old Tazio
> Nuvolari,
> renown former world champion race car driver, story wherein
> he supposedly
> said after winning the 1935 German Gran Prix in an obsolete
> Alfa Romeo whose
> brakes had failed half way through the event, "...why would I
> need brakes?
> All they do is slow me down."). At the time, I did not have
> the luxury of a
> "dedicated" race bike and so my trusty TdF had to do double
> duty as both my
> weekend warrior and regular mode of transport - which meant
> that not only
> did I abuse my brakes in competition but I furthermore
> subjected them to the
> regular rigors of riding from my parents' house in Healy
> Heights at the top
> of Council Crest to downtown Portland, Oregon - a 1073 foot
> vertical incline
> or drop depending upon your direction in just under 3 miles
> (...that would
> be an average 7 percent grade with some portions
> significantly steeper
> because there are a few flats along the way, believe it or
> not). The result
> is that I smoked every other type of pad that I tried until I
> found these
> Mathauser's. Subsequent to their use, I never once
> encountered any problem
> with stopping power or undue pad wear, and certainly not
> anything along the
> lines of delamination. They out performed anything else I
> could find
> regardless of wet or dry weather conditions. Not only was I
> completely
> thrilled with their performance, I did not once hear anything
> other than
> glowing praise for same from any of my contemporaries who
> also used them.
>
> Fast forward a couple of decades during which time I ended my
> remarkably
> unaccomplished racing endeavors, got married, finished my
> "gradual" studies,
> embarked upon a career, undertook a much more casual attitude
> with respect
> to the whole cycling scene, remanded my saddle time to
> occasional but
> enjoyable rides in an around the Puget Sound where I was then
> living, before
> finally getting lured into competing in my first triathlon
> event wherein my
> interest in cycling was immediately rekindled. It was only
> then, after I
> had begun poking my nose about the various internet velo
> related sites
> (...and now their ephemeral cousins, the cycling blog) that I
> first saw or
> heard mention of any potential for those early Scott /
> Mathauser brake shoes
> and pads to delaminate with possibly disastrous results. So,
> you will have
> to excuse me to the extent that I would seem to be stuck in
> an apparently
> outmoded paradigm such that when you reference them in
> conjunction with the
> phrase "...tarnished reputation", I have to ask myself,
> "...what the heck is
> going on and where was I when all of this came about?". All
> I can tell you
> is that these bits were held in high esteem back when they
> were de rigeur
> among the serious cycling crowd in my corner of the world.
> Which brings me
> back to my question of WHY it is that these brake shoes and
> pads are
> supposedly considered to be failure prone and is this
> reputation begot of a
> statistically significant number of occurrences or merely a
> few rare
> instances that have been recounted over and over ad nauseam
> to an ever
> increasing audience courtesy of the world wide web (...i.e.
> hearsay,
> internet urban legend, revisionist history, hoodoo voodoo,
> B.S., or
> reality)? And for those who can speak from personal
> experience, WHY do you
> believe that your particular shoe and pad combination failed?
> I truly want
> to know. Indeed, to the extent that one is able to clearly
> identify with
> distinction or even opine with some degree of deductive logic
> the rationale
> for such failure, it stands to reason that your insights
> would be of immense
> benefit in the form of potential preventative precautions for
> those who may
> still wish to employ these older Scott / Mathauser products.
>
> Robert "...not from Missouri, but sure like their motto"
> Broderick
> ...the "Frozen Flatlands" of South Dakota
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >From: Fred Rafael Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
> >To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >Subject: RE: [CR]A Few More Vintage Parts For Sale -
> Mathauser Bonding
> >Agent
> >Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:15:49 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >As is the case with many products with tarnished
> reputations,
> >many people do not experience any problems at all. But -
> with
> >the Mathauser finned pads - I have. It might not have
> occurred
> >often. But I'm certain the people at Scott-Mathauser saw at
> >least a few cases.
> >
> >When I contacted Scotty about my pads, he didn't seem at all
> >surprised and also sent me a replacement set, which were of
> the
> >more mundane type type that resembled MAFAC tandem brake
> pads,
> >except of course that they were red in color.
> >
> >He also insisted I send him my old finned pads.
> > Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
> >
> >--- "R.S. Broderick" <rsb000@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > David,
> > >
> > > I sent an off-list reply directly to John with respect to
> his
> > > earlier post
> > > regarding my "editorial" on Scott / Mathauser curved and
> > > finned brake shoes
> > > having "permanently" bonded pads. The basic gist of that
> > > communication was
> > > that I have never personally experienced any delamination
> > > problems where the
> > > pads somehow broke loose from their holders (...and I
> abused
> > > the living
> > > daylights out of a set of these for a good number of
> years).
> > > Whereas I may
> > > have seen pictorial evidence of such delamination as well
> as
> > > read the
> > > accounts of others who have supposedly encountered it
> > > personally, I have
> > > still to this day never yet heard nor read a detailed
> > > explanation as to how
> > > and/or why this may have occurred (...age related fatigue
> of
> > > the bonding
> > > agent ... brittlization of same due to durable exposure
> to
> > > temperatures of
> > > extreme? ... exposure to significant contrasts in actual
> > > temperature whether
> > > it be ambient or friction based usage induced? ... a
> > > manufacturing "flaw"
> > > resulting from improper use or application of the bonding
> > > agent? ... the
> > > unfortunate result of someone actively trying to pry
> loose
> > > the pad from its
> > > holder thinking that it was of the "replaceable" type?
> ... a
> > > combination of
> > > any one or more of these factors? ... something else
> > > altogether? ... if
>
=== message truncated ===
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