Tony, can you tell us what you know of the Brooks B.17 Competition Standard Campagnolo Model. Years made, variations, etc. I've seen one that didn't have the holes in the top or the nose trimmed (stamped 60 on the cantle plate) and another that had the three holes
and the nose trimmed like a Brooks Pro (stamped 62 on the cantle).
Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, Southern California
On Aug 13, 2006, at 7:19 AM, Tony Colegrave wrote:
>
> A few comments regarding Brooks' saddles, particularly Swallows,
> and the question of dating and commissioning of 'NOS' examples.
> The Swallow was introduced, as the Company's recent publicity has
> reminded us, in 1936 and was originally catalogued as Champion
> Swallow - no mention of B.17. In the 1939 Brooks catalogue it's
> still described as C.S., although the Brown Bros. catalogue of that
> year lists it as B.17C.S. All these original Swallows appear to
> have been constructed on B.17N. frames.
> It seems that 'slotted' bagloops started to disappear from the B.
> 17/Swallow range in 1937, and by 1939 all had been replaced with
> wire loops attached between the cantles and the ends of the rails,
> or, in the case of the Sprinter (quite understandably),dispensed
> with altogether.
> When the B.17 range, but not Swallows, were re-introduced after
> the war, in 1948, the bagloops were formed in appropriately-placed
> extension tabs from the cantles, in the manner still used these
> days, with the possible exception of the Flyer - which seems to
> have retained the wire loops for some time post-war.
> Production of Swallows appears to have resumed in 1951, when they
> were catalogued by Brooks as B.17C.S., and were offered, probably
> for the first time, with the option of chrome-plated frames and the
> 'new-style' bagloops.
> I've no idea when production of the Swallows ceased, but would
> guess that it was mid- to late sixties; I've seen dated examples,
> but none later than 1962. I've never seen an example with an oval
> stamping - all the early ones that I've come across have a 'sausage-
> shaped' stamping (perhaps the 'wurst' of Brooks' stampings, eh?),
> but I suppose that these could be described as oval-ish?
> When it comes to commissioning into use a 'NOS' Swallow which
> could be anything from 40 to 70 years old (and may not have been
> stored in an ideal environment during some of that time), one or
> two caveats might be in order? The leather would probably benefit
> from a course of treatment with 'Proofide', and even a light
> application of neatsfoot oil (normally to be kept well away from
> leather saddles) to the obvious 'stress points' along the edge,
> particularly at the junctions with the tabs which rivet together
> underneath. This treatment shouldn't be rushed, but given some time
> to 'do its work'. Careful attention should be given to the
> stitching, which is likely to be rather frail after many years,; if
> this shows signs of decay, it might be wise to replace it so that
> the stiffening wire should not be able to break loose and damage
> the leather and/or rider.
> The thought occurs - will this mean the 'beginning of the end' for
> eBay, if folks actually start using this 'NOS' stuff?
> Tony Colegrave, Northiam, East Sussex, U.K.
>
>
>> From: Toni Theilmeier <toni.theilmeier@t-online.de>
>> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> Subject: [CR]Brooks saddle dating
>> Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 08:14:37 +0200
>>
>> Can anyone confirm my idea that saddles dating from before WWII don´t
>>
>> have saddle bag loops, but reinforced oblong holes in the leather
>> right
>>
>> and left of the badge, and that loops only appeared after WWII?
>> Looking carefully at some catalogues makes me think this.
>>
>> Regards, Toni Theilmeier, Belm, Germany.