Re: [CR]KOF...are seeing definition creep?

(Example: Production Builders:Teledyne)

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:48:54 +0100
Subject: Re: [CR]KOF...are seeing definition creep?
From: "Hilary Stone" <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: Tom Sanders <tsan7759142@sbcglobal.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <000801c6d909$c418cad0$3dfbd045@ts>


I've been thinking about what exactly a KOF frame is too - I've just recently bought a Salsa La Raza from about 1993 - Ross Shafer was building pre-1983, but the La Raza is tig-welded which I think means its OTT. However it is built with old style 1in top tubes and 1 1/8in down tube and seat tube (albeit pretty light ones) so rides much closer to traditional CR list type frames tham most KOF frames with larger diameter tubes. When I tested a La Raza for Cycling Plus in 1993 - I was quite reasonably fit then - it was one of the nicest frames I'd ever ridden. My opinion, though I'm far less fit now, is not changed. My riding position is a bit changed - with higher bars and very slightly lower saddle but the ride quality is still there. The handling is really sweet, both on fast bumpy downhills and at slow speed delicate manoevers. Its steering is beautiful, more precise than my Thanet Silverlight, which is one of my other favourites, mine is just 22in ctt. The Silverlight frame design certainly does not work in larger sizes... But the La Raza is not quite as precise a steerer as most steel frames with 1 1/8in top tubes. There are are some CR list frames - the Claud Butler Olympic Sprint and some Paris bilaminated models with 1 1/8in frames and most KOF builders use these too. So where does this musing get us - I'm not quite sure beyond the fact that we all have our own personal preferences. However I don't believe that personal preferences and frame fit are simply what good riding frames are about. Jan Heine has on occasion, highlighted what he likes in a frame's handling. And certainly I like a frame to have a bit of resilience, super-rigid frames do not do it for me. So what qualities (apart from looks) is it that other CR members like in their CR list frames and in their KOF frames? One final plea is not to forget the British KOF builders - George Longstaff, St John St Cycles, Argos, Dave Yates and Chas Roberts. Mostly they are not concerned with aesthetics anything as like as much as US builders but almost all build really nice riding frames.

Hilary Stone, Bristol, England


> From: "Tom Sanders" <tsan7759142@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:58:58 -0400
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]KOF...are seeing definition creep?
>
> I have had the sense lately of more and more folks feeling that KOF builders
> are replicating the OT bikes of Pre-83. All the KOF builders that I know
> (and there are a few) feel that they are building modern steel bikes with
> the craftsmanship and artisanship of the period, but perhaps a bit better.
> A few will build a replica bike if it is requested...and it sometimes
> is...with beautiful results, but their main output is a modern bike...nearly
> always of steel with serious individual attention to detail. From Richard
> Sachs to Sacha White, few would say they are building anything but modern
> bikes. The KOF designation does get a bit shaky, if one is only talking
> about them and looking backward at pre-'83. They need to be considered as
> just what they are...and I don't quite agree that this list is just about
> the pre-'83 stuff...it is about the stuff from that period and also the
> stuff which is built with an individual care that reflects the values of
> those times...and maybe a bit more, even. If there were no improvements
> being made, it would be a dead art, indeed. Frankly, if the list was
> concerned only with what was great 30 or so years ago, it would be dead,
> too.
> Tom Sanders
> Lansing, Mi USA