Re: [CR] Confente track on eBay - NOW World Voyageur

(Example: Production Builders:Teledyne)

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:36:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <>
Subject: Re: [CR] Confente track on eBay - NOW World Voyageur
To: Pat Moffat <>,
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-DAV105034C5EB7353CFF2CC6ACB230@phx.gbl>

40 rear was traditional on British bikes. Rarely see it on Japanese-built bikes. Could be though, and maybe he only counted the rear and assumed both were the same. This apparent lack of knowledge seems to conflict with the extensive history of the World Voyageur he gives. But he could have lifted that verbatim from a web site somewhere.


Jerry Moos Big Spring, Texas, USA

Pat Moffat <> wrote: "...he says it has 40 spoke wheels..." I have a Schwinn Passage full touring bike probably from the '70's (five speed, Columbus tubing). It has a 40 spoke rear wheel, 36 in front.

Pat Moffat Tempe AZ USA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos To: kyle-chrisbrooks@earthlinknet ; Mark Bulgier ; classicrendezvous@bikelistorg Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:44 AM Subject: RE: [CR] Confente track on eBay - NOW World Voyageur

Speaking of scams or potential scams, what do y'all think about the World Voyageur with 2 hours to go?<blah>

It's not the bike so much that is suspicious, except he says in has 40 spoke wheels, which I find highly unlikely. But the seller has only two feedbacks, and one is negative. And that one is really strange, supposed failure to pay for a BUY IT NOW purchase of a magasine for 3 cents. I mean who the heck lists something with a BUY IT NOW of 3 cents? And who would bother to post negative feedback over a 3 cent purchase? Maybe the magasine seller was trying to make money on the $6 shipping of a 3 cent item and the buyer (now the Schwinn seller) balked at that. But one should consider the shipping cost before bidding. Another concern is that the seller takes only personal checks and money orders, so if it is a scam, you cannot recover anything through PayPal or your credit card company

Since the current bid is only $250, we are hardly talking Confente or even Masi money here, so I'm tempted to take a chance. But trying to deal with a scam is very time consuming and aggravating, even when the amount of money is not large. Does anyone here actually know this seller?


Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX

Kyle Brooks <kyle-chrisbrooks@earthlinknet> wrote: Ebay already removed it before I could see it -- but it sounds a lot like several other bogus auctions I reported to Ebay recently. In each case, the photos and most of the description were ripped off an auction for a Confente track bike that sold this summer (that auction ended successfully at something like $7000 or $8000). Also, in each case, the bogus auctions were removed within an hour after my reporting them. I've seen lots of similar bogus auctions for Masi bikes and other potential high-dollar collectibles.

My guess is that if you tried to track down the seller whose eBay ID was listed (amattkensethfan?), you'd find that their account was hijacked. They probably had no idea they had a Confente for sale. Easiest way for that to happen is to respond to an email purporting to be from Ebay, then following the links in the email and supplying your ID and password.

Anyhow, some "Red Flags" in these bogus auctions include: 1) Very short auction listing, such as 1 or 2 days -- especially for a potentially high-dollar item. If someone expects to get a lot for their auction, they'll want it listed long enough for lots of potential bidders to see it. Bogus auction scammers want to get in and out quickly before being caught. 2) Listing in the wrong category -- and I don't mean listing a road bike in the mountain bike section -- I mean listing a bicycle in a category like "children's books" or "vintage clothing" (as two of the fraudulent Confente auctions were listed). I'm not sure why a scammer would do that, or how that would help them (anyone have an idea about that one?) 3) Seller tells you not to contact them through the eBay Message system, and instead tries to get you to send all correspondence to an email link within the description (which if you checked it out, is probably different from the email that goes to the eBay seller ID.) 4) "INCREDIBLE BUY IT NOW PRICE of $1000 USD" for a bike you know could bring several times that amount. Incredible, indeed.

Another thing that was pretty "ballsy" (pardon me) about the bogus Confente auctions is that the first one actually was posted while the REAL Confente auction was still going on this summer. If you ran an "all categories" search on eBay for "confente," both the real auction and the bogus one would appear right by one another! (actually, that might be why they list the bogus ones in odd categories -- to minimize the chance of that happening)

Kyle Brooks Akron, OH
> [Original Message]
> From: Mark Bulgier
> To:
> Date: 9/19/2006 10:47:51 AM
> Subject: [CR] Confente track on eBay - bogus, right?
> I mean, the pictures are of a real Confente, but it seems like a
> probable attempt to scam someone using photos and descriptions from a
> previous auction.
> "incredible buy it now price of: 1000 USD"?
> Anyone know eBay handle "amattkensethfan", email addy
> ""?
> Apologies if this is the real owner trying to really auction a real
> bike.
> Mark Bulgier
> Seattle WA USA