Re: Classic bikes as investments, was Re: [CR]50th anniversary gruppi


Example: Framebuilders:Chris Pauley

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:29:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Classic bikes as investments, was Re: [CR]50th anniversary gruppi
To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu
From: Brandon Ives <brandon@ivycycles.com>
In-Reply-To: <43CBC6E4.6040108@cox.net>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

I very smart woman (a.k.a. my wonderful wife) once told me, "It's not an investment unless you plan to sell it. anything else and it's just collecting." best, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives thinking about selling some of my investments to buy a new frame jig in Vancouver, B.C.

On Monday, Jan 16, 2006, at 08:16 US/Pacific, Harvey M Sachs wrote:
> I'm sure that some CR members make some money with Classic bikes. I'm
> sure that some will lose money on classic bikes and parts as
> investments. I suspect that both groups spend a lot of time thinking
> about the financial risks and benefits of their purchases.
>
> With the forebearance of my wife (and since our only child is doing
> fine on his own), I've been able to buy a few bikes and parts that I
> really want. And I was fortunate that a good friend gave me some neat
> stuff decades ago. There are now about 10 vintage bikes in the
> collection, and I don't expect it grow significantly. I've had three
> of them for more than 30 years. None are wall-hangers, and most have
> extensive reminders of long service ("Patina" and scratches). I
> expect that all will develop even more evidence that they are not NOS
> as friends and I ride them, with both joy and respect.
>
> I have these bikes and parts because they meant something to me when I
> bought them, and even because others find them interesting. I have
> occasionally made some money selling a bike I had bought, but I can't
> remember buying something with the goal of "flipping" it, much less
> the goal of selling after the value had appreciated. I bought them
> because I loved them (e.g, '65 Paramount), because I had lusted after
> them when I couldn't afford them ('73 Cinelli SC with Super-Patina),
> or because they interested me (Austro-Daimler Vent Noir with early DA
> black gruppo).
>
> Conversely, I don't expect to ever own a Colnago (no personal
> attraction, and generally too garish and faddish for me), or an Alan
> (I love innovation, but this one did not respect the properties and
> values of aluminum). Just personal reasons: I collect things I respect
> -- or trivial things that are laughably bad, like the Campgranola
> Sport and Gran Trashmo derailleurs.
>
> Someday, I hope that our son will inherit the question of proper
> distribution of this collection. I can't imagine thinking of my bikes
> as part of an investment portfolio instead of a hobby I love, but this
> is rather personal: your values may differ, and you may find the
> challenge of managing bikes as an investment very fulfilling - or
> frustrating.
>
> As Sarah Gibson would say, "Peace."
>
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Don Wilson said:
>
> In paraphrase, Robert said buyers collect most and
> have most money to collect between ages 40-55. He also
> assumed they like to collect what they could only
> dream of buying around the age of 15. So as of 2005:
> subtract 40 and 55 from 2005, add 15 to both and you
> will know that bikes built between 1965 and 1980 will
> have the largest group of collectors at their peak
> buying power and so bring the most money in
> competitive bidding.
> While my own personal experience of my collecting
> desires would move that consumer imprinting age of 15
> to something more like 15-18, I do think you're
> collection model is on the nail head; that's why I
> bought my Raleigh International for me alone (I'm 52
> and expect the peak run up is probably past) and
> that's why I bought my Vitus with the carbon fiber
> tubes glued to the 979 head tube/seat cluster to hold
> for a slightly younger fellow. It also explains why
> old school BMX bikes (late 70s early 80s) have started
> an accelerating up tick in value and why Schwinn
> Stingrays at least appear to have slowed in their
> escalation.
> One could however argue variously where within the
> collectible vintage age range price peaks ought most
> likely to be expected.
> So exactly what year should we start picking up Jan
> Ulrich Pinarellos and Lance Armstrong Treks? :-) I'd
> like to hear more opining by you regarding the graph
> that depicts a new bike reaching its eventual nadir in
> value before starting its upward bounce. And of course
> you'll have to figure in the carrying cost. :-)
> Don Wilson
> Los Olivos, CA
>
> Don Wilson
> Los Olivos, CA
>
> --- "R.S. Broderick" <rsb000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> Steven,
>>> Ok, just for fun I am going to approach yours as a
>>> somewhat rhetorical
>>> question and attempt to address it from an abstract
>>> macro viewpoint which is
>>> not necessarily specific to the Campy 50th
>>> Anniversary group that you
>>> mentioned in particular, but rather, offers an
>>> explanation which I believe
>>> has application far beyond that specific example.
>>> <snip>