Re: [CR]Bayliss Wiley, BSA and Cyclo Freewheel Unit Hubs


Example: Racing:Jacques Boyer

In-Reply-To: <e198c08b17d74.43b6a9b2@optonline.net>
From: "neil foddering" <neilfoddering@hotmail.com>
To: joebz@optonline.net
Subject: Re: [CR]Bayliss Wiley, BSA and Cyclo Freewheel Unit Hubs
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:32:43 +0000
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

I hadn't spotted that one, but I don't think it's the one in question, since GB514931 was published on 21 November, 1939, whereas the "Patent Applied For" markings appear on the large flange model hub, believed to have been introduced post WW2. It's possible, of course, that the large flange hub was introduced in 1939 - I personally don't have any documentation supporting the introduction date od the L/F hub, other than catalogue lillustrations, which can be unreliable. However, the 1939 Brown Brothers catalogue doesn't list a L/F version.

Maybe someone has Bayliss-Wiley catalogues or leaflets whish will clarify the introduction date of the L/F hub?

Neil Foddering Weymouth, England


>From: joebz@optonline.net
>To: neil foddering <neilfoddering@hotmail.com>
>CC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]Bayliss Wiley, BSA and Cyclo Freewheel Unit Hubs
>Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:54:26 -0500
>
>The second BW patent is likely GB514931, which relates to a spindle (or
>axle) and the double sided bearing for such hub.
>
>Joe Bender-Zanoni
>Great Notch, NJ
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: neil foddering <neilfoddering@hotmail.com>
>Date: Saturday, December 31, 2005 10:31 am
>Subject: [CR]Bayliss Wiley, BSA and Cyclo Freewheel Unit Hubs
>
> > I have two Bayliss Wiley Unit hubs: the early low flange version,
> > and a NOS
> > post-war large flange model. I also have a Cyclo "Tank" Unit hub.
> > Please
> > see the photo on:
> >
> >
>http://photobucket.com/albums/v396/hadendowa/Unit%20Freewheel%20Hubs/?sc=1
> >
> > and in the following sub-albums accessible from that page: "BW LF
> > UNIT HUB",
> > "BW SF UNIT HUB" and "CYCLO UNIT HUB"
> >
> > The Bayliss Wiley Unit Hub patent (number GB461951) was published
> > on 26th
> > February, 1937. For full patent details, including drawings, see:
> >
> > http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB461951&F=0
> >
> > The BW small flange Unit hub is marked with this patent. The later
> > large
> > flange BW Unit hub in the photos is marked "Patent Applied For",
> > but I have
> > been unable to find any patent having been granted for this model,
> > and I
> > don't know what the specific patent claims were If you compare
> > the photos
> > of the large and small flange BW hubs, you will see a marked
> > difference in
> > the size of the bearing housings, but what the actu8al changes
> > were, I don't
> > know - I haven't stripped any of the hubs (which is probably why
> > they're
> > still working).
> >
> > The Cyclo Unit hub is marked in French with the Cyclo logo and
> > "BREVETE
> > SGDG" on the barrel, and the Cyclo logo and "SGDG" and "TANK
> > BREVETE" on the
> > adjustable bearing cone. I bought this on eBay from France, hence
> > the
> > French markings, but it has 40 spoke holes (as do the BW hubs)
> > which I
> > understand to be unusual for the French market, 36 holes being much
> > more
> > common. (My hub does not have the eyeletted spoke holes on the
> > freewheel
> > side flange which are specified in the 1939 Cyclo catalogue).
> >
> > Perhaps they were made in England and exported to France via French
> > Cyclo,
> > and stamped accordingly? The reason I believe that this might be
> > the case
> > is that the 1939 catalogue states that these hubs were "Made under
> > BSA
> > license (sic), Patent No. 498931". For details of this patent,
> > which was
> > published on 17th January 1939, see:
> >
> > http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB498931&F=0&QPN=GB498931
> >
> > My hub appears externally similar to the hub in the BSA patent
> > drawings,
> > although it only steps down once from the flange to the barrel,
> > unlike the
> > hub in the patent drawings and the exploded diagram in the 1939
> > Ccyclo
> > catalogue (and, come to that, the BW hubs). However, if it IS the
> > BSA
> > patent hub, then I think it more likely, particularly in view of
> > the
> > 40-hole spoking, that was British made, and exported. It doesn't
> > seem
> > likely to me that both British and French Cyclo factories would go
> > to the
> > expense of tooling up to make the same pattern of hub.
> >
> > However, this is all conjecture on my part - it's just as possible
> > that it
> > was made in France, and distributed in the UK by British Cyclo.
> >
> > It is a "flip flop" (fixed/free) hub, and the BW Unit hub was also
> > available
> > fixed/free - it is listed in the 1939 Brown Bothers catalogue as
> > being
> > available in 4 configurations:
> >
> > Single freewheel
> > Single freewheel/fixed
> > Three speed
> > Three speed/ fixed
> >
> > The only options listed in the 1950 Cyclo catalogue relate to 3, 4
> > or 5
> > speed, and by this time, it appears that Cyclo had dropped the BSA-
> > licensed
> > model, and were using the Bayliss Wiley Unit hub - if you refer to
> > the 1950
> > catalogue page, you will see it listed as "B.W. FREEWHEEL HUB
> > UNIT", but
> > referred to in the description as "CYCLO unit". The illustration
> > is of the
> > large flange BW hub.
> >
> > A couple of general points - the teeth on the sprockets supplied
> > for the BW
> > hubs were flat-topped. The1939 Brown Brothers catalogue states
> > that
> > standard hub sprockets (I assume that this means fixed sprockets)
> > will fit,
> > but will NOT work satisfactorily with derailleur gears. This seems
> > strange,
> > because Cyclo and Trivelox were supplying three speed blocks with
> > pointed
> > teeth, like those of a fixed sprocket, at that time, and in my
> > experience,
> > they work fine. I haven't yet tried a BW Unit hub with fixed
> > sprockets, but
> > I guess maybe Mick or Doug have? I suspect that this was a
> > marketing ploy
> > on the part of BW.
> >
> > Both the BW and Cyclo unit hubs were listed in the 1952 Brown
> > Brothers
> > catalogue, although the BW illustration is of the small flange hub,
> > and the
> > Cyclo illustration is of the large flange BW! Neither appears in
> > the 1956
> > edition. The BW hub is also listed in the 1952 Hobday Bros
> > Catalogue (with
> > the large flange hub illustrated) but it doesn't appear in the 1954
> > edition.
> >
> > Neil Foddering
> > Weymouth, England