[CR]Re: Re value in 1967 - Econ 101


Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:06:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Rafael Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <4541807D.6090808@optonline.net>
Subject: [CR]Re: Re value in 1967 - Econ 101

You know, if you filter out the political comments, Dave made some interesting points. In very early 1969, I paid something like $115 for an Atala with Campagnolo NR derailleurs and hubs, Weinmann brakes, TTT stem and bars, and a Magistroni crankset. Oh - for that price I also received a Pletscher rear rack and the super-stylish REG water bottle cage with a quick release that let you instantly remove it for time trialing.

Anyway, adjusting for inflation, it would cost about $600 today. I don't think a modern bike would be quite as stylish, but I would expect the shifting and braking to be much better. Plus, the bike would be slightly lighter. Whether the bicycle would be better overall, is something we could discuss at length, I suppose.

By the way, this bike came with the first set of high performance clinchers I ever owned. They were made by Hutchinson, and seemed to be based on one of their wider, cotton tubulars. The ride was great, and they were quite light for the era. In fact, I suspect they would be reasonably light by modern standards. In any event, this was one part of that bicycle that might have been better than the current alternatives.
      Cheers,
      Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)


--- Joseph Bender-Zanoni wrote:


> I don't think we need to go there at all. Economic diatribes

\r?\n> (laced

\r?\n> with politics, questionable assumptions and missing factors

\r?\n> as big an

\r?\n> elephant in the room to boot) are not within the scope of the

\r?\n> list. I

\r?\n> would set the limits of CR economic related discourse at

\r?\n> inflation

\r?\n> adjusted dollars, supply/demand for bicycles/parts and

\r?\n> relative national

\r?\n> economic conditions as relate to bicycles/parts.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Joe Bender-Zanoni

\r?\n> Great Notch, NJ

\r?\n>

\r?\n>

\r?\n> David Toppin wrote:

\r?\n> > Well, if we're going here:

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > Prices roughly double every ten years, but your point is a

\r?\n> drastic

\r?\n> > oversimplification of what is actually going on. An entry

\r?\n> level $2500 car

\r?\n> > in 1970 would equate to a $15000 car today. But todays

\r?\n> cars are much nicer,

\r?\n> > whith many more amenities and are much more reliable and

\r?\n> efficient. A color

\r?\n> > TV in 1970 would have been around $300. A much better TV

\r?\n> today (with a

\r?\n> > remote!) can be had for $300 or under. We are living a

\r?\n> much better

\r?\n> > lifestyle. I'd bet the entry level jobs at most car

\r?\n> dealerships are $10 per

\r?\n> > hour and the journemen mechanics are making $30 to 50 per

\r?\n> hour. So the

\r?\n> > wages are pretty much the same as they were, and the money

\r?\n> can buy better

\r?\n> > stuff. Nicer houses (average home sizes and amenteties

\r?\n> have increased to

\r?\n> > beyond the wildest dreams of your average 70's consumer).

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > I'm not sure about Canada, but in the 80's the US began the

\r?\n> longest

\r?\n> > peacetime expansion in history, which lasted well into the

\r?\n> 90's and many

\r?\n> > argue is still responsible for the economy we have today.

\r?\n> We had no

\r?\n> > economic dlorums in the 90's here, and usually recessions

\r?\n> are caused by

\r?\n> > inept politicians who gain control, think Hawley Smoot

\r?\n> Tariff act and the

\r?\n> > Great Depression. Not saying it wasa the only cause but it

\r?\n> helped.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > The reason you need two people working today is because the

\r?\n> government takes

\r?\n> > half of your income if you make anything at all, and it

\r?\n> forces the mom to

\r?\n> > work. I think this is by design, but I'm trying not to get

\r?\n> too political

\r?\n> > here. Real Estate prices are simply a function of supply

\r?\n> & demand. In

\r?\n> > 1970 we had approximately 200 million people in the US,

\r?\n> today it is 300

\r?\n> > million. More people trying to buy a limited resource, so

\r?\n> the price is

\r?\n> > driven up, the process is exaggerated in CA as the

\r?\n> population is so dense.

\r?\n> > Inflation has been very low in historical terms from the

\r?\n> early 80s til now.

\r?\n> > There is price deflation in lots of products, think Wal

\r?\n> Mart and products

\r?\n> > that haven't increased in price over the years, like the

\r?\n> earlier mentioned

\r?\n> > TV sets. Gas is also very cheap in historical terms in

\r?\n> real dollars. You

\r?\n> > may have noticed nobody really stopped driving too much and

\r?\n> headed for the

\r?\n> > bikes over the past year.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > All collectible things, like antique cars, motorcycles, on

\r?\n> topic classic

\r?\n> > bicycles, and the antique bicycles I like are a limited

\r?\n> resource, no more

\r?\n> > are made. As more and more people become interested in

\r?\n> them, partly because

\r?\n> > of lists like this, the more expensive they become as more

\r?\n> people are vying

\r?\n> > for them. One interesting thing that happened to Model A's

\r?\n> & T's was they

\r?\n> > actually dropped in price as the old guys that liked them

\r?\n> died off.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > I think antique bicycles are a great value, and they don't

\r?\n> take up the space

\r?\n> > or require the maintenance of a car or a motorcycle!

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > David Toppin

\r?\n> > dave@pelletizer.com

\r?\n> > http://www.pelletizer.com <------ see our complete, searchable

\r?\n> inventory.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > The Pelletizer Group, Inc.

\r?\n> > 4 LaChance Street

\r?\n> > Gardner, MA 01440-2476

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > (978) 669-0060

\r?\n> > (978) 669-0061 fax

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > -----Original Message-----

\r?\n> > From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org

\r?\n> > [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf

\r?\n> Of Greg Lone

\r?\n> > Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:29 PM

\r?\n> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

\r?\n> > Subject: [CR]Re value in 1967

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > Hi one and all. I would like to add my two cents worth on

\r?\n> the relative cost

\r?\n> > vs earning subject. Hopefully It will not be viewed as

\r?\n> being too political

\r?\n> > or off topic. I entered the workforce in 1972 as a part

\r?\n> time High school

\r?\n> > student, also in the automotive parts field {the local G.M.

\r?\n> dealer where my

\r?\n> > Father worked full time} at $2.50/Hr. The journeymen both

\r?\n> in the shop and

\r?\n> > the parts dept were at $8.00 to $10.00/ Hr.dependant on

\r?\n> Qualifications and

\r?\n> > service {non union}. Prices of the day were in my

\r?\n> experience roughly one

\r?\n> > tenth of what they are today. Except real estate which has

\r?\n> gone completely

\r?\n> > nuts in western Canada. The problem is that the wages have

\r?\n> not even remotely

\r?\n> > followed that same 10 fold increase. The local trades and

\r?\n> technical people

\r?\n> > have just started to crack the $30.00/Hr. level. It's no

\r?\n> wonder it now

\r?\n> > requires a two income family situation to even come close

\r?\n> to the standard

\r?\n> > of living a single earner middle class family enjoyed in

\r?\n> the 70's. The 80's

\r?\n> > recession , the doldrums of much of the 90's ,and now a

\r?\n> return to some

\r?\n> > fairly serious inflation in the 2000's have made many

\r?\n> things a lot more

\r?\n> > {relatively} expensive. There are some good bikes on the

\r?\n> market these days,

\r?\n> > however they are almost exclusively produced off shore. If

\r?\n> you compare a

\r?\n> > current handmade frame set I think you will find it has

\r?\n> become significantly

\r?\n> > more expensive in "era adjusted " terms. If you need a real

\r?\n> shock however ;

\r?\n> > look away from classic bicycles for a moment , and consider

\r?\n> vintage

\r?\n> > motorcycles. They are frequently selling for prices that

\r?\n> make even the

\r?\n> > highest of collectible bicycle prices seem quite

\r?\n> reasonable. For the time

\r?\n> > being at least ,I would consider classic bicycles to be a

\r?\n> great value and a

\r?\n> > lot of fun. Just not quite as affordable as they once were.

\r?\n> > Greg Lone

\r?\n> > Langley {just east of Vancouver}

\r?\n> > British Columbia

\r?\n> > Canada

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > ---------------------------------

\r?\n> > Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo!

\r?\n> Canada Photos