Jerry,
In the case of clams for items that are never received, Paypal will not fault a seller who can prove that the item was shipped. Paypal specifically recommends that sellers use a shipping method that can be tracked online, in order to protect themselves from such claims. Paypal may ultmately reimburse the buyer through its Protection Policy, but that does not mean the seller is liable.
Similarly, your credit card company may reimburse you for an item not received, but that is between you and the cc comapny, and does not make the seller necessarily liable. Your cc company may attempt to recover from the seller, but will not pursue it where the seller can provide proof of shipping.
Shipping with online tracking is the safest way for both buyer and seller, and is very cheap domestically. Tracking for international shipments, however, is extremely expensive and only justified for high-dollar items. Insurance is the only reasonably priced protection alternative for international shipments.
May we never have reason to make a claim!
Ray Dobbins Miami Florida USA
Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Nonetheless PayPal wil attempt to recover a payment if the buyer can establish he did not receive the goods. Likewise, most credit card companies will refund a charge if the goods were not delivered or were not as represented and will then try to collect from the seller. That's why I always feel safer paying with a credit card via PayPal if I do not know the seller.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, Republica de Tejas
Ken Freeman wrote: Responsibility is a complicated thing. Here are some of my opinions.
If I as a buyer am responsible once I pay for the item, then insurance and perhaps traceable shipping should be a condition of sale. I am than beholden to the sellers integrity, capability, and honesty to honor that aspect of the contract. I don't think I can control how shipping is to be done from the receiver's position.
If I request insurance and traceability and I do not get it, or the seller fails to provide me with the tracking info, the seller has breached my trust, and should be responsible, at least morally.
If I do not request insurance or traceability, the item does not arrive, the seller offers me a replacement, and the seller then does not support that subsequent commitment, I think the seller has taken a responsibility that he has not fulfilled, and then owes me a replacement.
If Ebay assumes standard surface post (whatever "standard Ebay shipping" is intended to mean), and it assumes the buyer is responsible after payment, the buyer is left to the seller's good graces and intentions to ship with integrity. Major retail sellers such as Performance Bike allow the buyer to select shipping method. While human errors can occur, the system cannot complete your sale without a shipping selection.
Ebay is a "buyer beware" market, with no inherent protection for buyers, if the seller's minimum obligation is to place the item into a type of shipping, regardless of quality. I must be more vigilant on Ebay.
Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI USA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Jerome & Elizabeth Moos Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:16 AM To: Tom Hayes; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Ebay transactions and responsiblity
Well, PayPal's policy and that of most credit card companies is that the seller is responsible for lost shipments. That's the main reason I am suspicious of eBay setters that don't take PayPal. That said there is still some grey area here. A few months ago I failed to receive a stem although the seller supposedly had a confirmation number from USPS. The seller refunded my payment, but I returned half the refund to him, as neither of us was really at fault and thus I thought we should share the loss. Of course this was a fairly cheap item, so we could both afford to be accomodating.
Rgards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, Republic of Texas
Tom Hayes wrote: In a slight tangent of the current thread on Ebay transactions, I would like to ask about the responsibity when items are sent. I don't know whether I am asking this question morally or legally, or neither of those, and perhaps more in the vein of other members' sense of right in selling and buying on Ebay. Where does the responsiblity rest for lost uninsured items sent through the mail? I recently sent a relatively expensive ($200) to an international buyer. He never received it; I provided the receipt with the customs number on it (which, according to the US Postal Service is not traceable) indicating it was sent.
I have absolutely no reason to not believe this person when he states that he did not receive it, and he has been extremely polite in his requests and responses to me, and has made no demands.
I know when buying on Ebay, though it has only happenned twice, where I did not receive items sent that I was sure were sent, my sense of right is that I am out the item if I did not buy insurance when offerred. I am not sure that is right either; after all, who assumes the liability of the carrier, the sender or the receiver?
Anyone with some thoughts that they'd like to share privately?
Tom Hayes
Chagrin Falls, Ohio USA