re: [CR]Lyotard Berthod Repair

Example: Production Builders

Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 05:49:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <>
Subject: re: [CR]Lyotard Berthod Repair
To:,, Classic Rendezvous <>
In-Reply-To: <>

Can't remember if it was me who traded with Harvery or not, but I know what he is talking about in terms of variation. Lyotard pedals in general, not just Berthets I think, show considerable variation in pedal thread diameter, such that "French" and "English" are relative terms. Lyotard pedal threads vary pretty much continuously from the nominal 14 mm French to the nominal 9/16 (14.29 mm) English. So, many of them are in effect "universal". TA a couple of years ago sold their pedals in a version that was designed to fit either French or ISO, essentially by splitting the difference between 14 mm and 14.29 mm, which isn't large to start with. What TA did by design, Lyotard did decades earlier by accident.

There was also variation in the pedal thread length as Harvey says, and also, they come at least with 15 mm and 16 mm wrench flats and maybe another size as well.

The point of all this is that one wants to find a spindle whose actual measured thread diameter matches decently the crank thread. If the flats are marked D & G (Droit & Gauche) the thread is nominally French, if R & L (Right & Left) nominally English. If unmarked, which is not uncommon, you're on your own. Best to actually measure anyway, since, as Harvey says, with Lyotard the nominal threading is highly negotiable.

It's also nice to have both pedals with the same wrench flat size, so you don't need two different pedal wrenches. But the critical dimension, as Harvey says, is spindle length between bearings. The big question here is whether, despite variation from spindle to spindle, is the spindle used in the Berthets more or less the same as used in the 45A, 45D and 460D? since millions of these were made, that would make it much easier to replace a Berthet spindle by robbing one from a trashed example of one of these ubiquitious models.


Jerry Moos Big Spring, Republic of Texas

Harvey M Sachs <> wrote: Jack Romans wrote: I picked-up some Lyotard Berthod all-steel platform pedals for some future frenchy project. One has a bad spindle and outer threaded race. Does anyone know if I should be able to replace these parts with ones from the more common models? +++++++++++ Nice, Jack, and consider yourself lucky - maybe. In my experience, the frames usually fail before the spindles, because the aluminum pieces that attach the platform to the central shaft just work loose. This leaves some surplus spindles lying around - if anyone else keeps them.

A couple of years ago, I tried to do a spindle swap with another member of this esteemed list, and discovered that a spindle is not a spindle is not a spindle, where Berthets are concerned. -->short v. long threaded section for crank mount, for steel and aluminum cranks, respectively. --> no one knows how many pedal threading diameter variations; there may be a continuum from loose 14 mm French to pretty good 9/16". Maybe the dies started out as 14 mm, and gradually wore to 9/16"? :-) --> Spindle lengths vary enough to make some combinations impossible and others require grinding off a couple of mm.

On the other hand, I don't remember much in variation that mattered among the truly awful pressed sheet metal bearing "cones," and think they may have interchanged with equivalents.

If you will carefully measure the length (top of inner race to bearing end of spindle), I'll check if there's anything in the stash. That's the go-no go, as is the pedal threading.

With Lyotard Berthets, the only surprise would be not finding a surprise. Maybe that's why we love 'em.

harvey sachs mcLean va. (we once finished a tour through the appalachians with radiator clamps holding one Berthet together. It was the last tour with 14 mm. pedals)