Steven, as usual, you did not read my post very carefully. It clearly stated that the garments carried Nalini, Santini and Giordana logos on the outside and these logos were prominent in the auction photos. Therefore, even if "Austy" had a license to make the jerseys of the teams in question, they are still counterfeits unless they also have licenses to use the Nalini, Santini and Giordana names and logos. To suggest all this is the case is pretty farfetched, although I gave the seller two opportunities to provide evidence to this effect before I filed a PayPal complaint. It is also pretty telling that rather than respond to me or even to PayPal with evidence that these were licensed cheap copies, he instead filed totally fraudulent claims of nonpayment with eBay, despite PayPal records that undisputably show I paid in full within two days of the auction.
Don't know where you learned logic, but I was taught that a person caught in a clear and deliberate lie is then to be presumed a liar in any other dispute. If these jerseys were merely cheap ripoffs but not outright counterfeits, any honest or logical seller would provide evidence of this rather than making fraudulent accusations that any child could see are false.
As to your opinion of whether this is On-Topic, you are not, thank God, the judge of that. These are some of the most prominent jersey manufactures in the world, and they do from time to time make retro as well as current jerseys. So I believe it is quite likely CR members might be inclined to purchase some of these jerseys. And I think it is quite appropriate to warn that these are apparent counterfeits and that the seller has refused to do anything to prove that they are not. If Dale decides that is off-topic, fine, but it is his judgment that prevails here not yours.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX
The Maaslands <TheMaaslands@comcast.net> wrote: Jerry,
I believe that you are barking up the wrong tree and in a completely wrong forum about these jerseys.
Firstly, not a single one of the jerseys that you bought, nor the ones being offered by the seller is even remotely CR-period specific, so I am at a loss to understand why you have now written multiple posts to this list. Your flimsy attempt to link the jerseys to period-correctness by saying they include the Once and Kelme sponsor names is akin to saying that a carbon fiber Trek is on-topic because Trek built frames in the CR period. Secondly, none of the jerseys claims to be made by Nalini, Giordana or Santini. Thirdly, Nalini, Giordana and Santini, from my bicycle business experience, do not generally have worldwide rights to their jersey designs, so there is every possibility that the jerseys are fully legitimate if produced in Australia. So before you accuse somebody of selling counterfeit material, I would be very careful and check out all the legal aspects. Fourthly, in the event that there was any infringement in the case of these jerseys, it is more than likely that Nalini, Giordana and Santini would not even be the offended parties, but rather the pro team and its sponsors. The sponsors would not generally be unduly worried, as they initially got involved for the sole purpose of getting their name/brand out to the general public. The pro team is also not apt to be unduly concerned about their old designs, because not a single team that I know of that earns a commission on the sale of team jerseys.
Steven Maasland Moorestown, NJ USA
PS: If you have anything to say about this post, may I suggest that you automatically make it off-list because it would seem to be totally off-topic.