Re: Fw: [CR]Stopping a fixed gear in Ted's day.

(Example: Production Builders:Teledyne)

From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net>
To: "Ted E. Baer" <wickedsky@sbcglobal.net>, "Joseph Bender-Zanoni" <joebz@optonline.net>
References: <363417.53088.qm@web80612.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [CR]Stopping a fixed gear in Ted's day.
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 21:15:01 -0800
reply-type=original
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Like Chuck Schmitt said, the old gloves were made in different palm thicknesses, some of the road gloves were thinner for protection in spills, and a little padding. Some of the track guys liked thin gloves, too because they used them in pursuits or some mass start or sprints but didn't need thick or tough leather as they didn't stop that hard. The team race guys used a litt thicker or tougher palm leather, I don't remember what kind of leather anymore, it wast sift but tough so it wouldn't eare through. Hand ball gloves were made that had extra palm padding, the better ones to use wer the ones without internal padding because they had tougher leather. The padded maybe cotton or some material like that had thinner leather and wore through too fast. Maybe the thicker palm leather gloves we had were a tough cowhide, or maybe buffalo? I don't remember kangaroo. Some guys even used thick cloth gloves and cut out the fingers for summer, but they wore out too fast. We uesd heavier gloves in traing on the road so we wouldn't wear them out too fast. Yes, the arm is behind the bar for pressure. The reason guys road close to the center with their hand is so the bar would be easier to steer with hand in center, epecially in a team race where you slung your partner into action and leaned your bike to the left so as you threw you partner forward you threw him slightly down the banking for extra speed and across your front wheel. Too close your wheel got clipped and you went on your ass and maybe knocked your partner down too. The reason you need a heeavier duty glove in a team race was tha during the "jams" after you pushed your partner you looked for a hole/gap between riders and steered-shot up the track banking using the bank and your glove to slow down so you wouldn't ride so far on relief, which meant your shift at the front or in the chase line line was shorter and extended your endurance. Of course, that meant you had to keep on top of where your partner was while waiting the 1-1/2 or 2 laps while your partner raced around and then you accelerated while swinging down when clear ,(timing is everything), got into the "lane" just above your partner, the imaginary level that is and then he pulled along side just below you and pushed you into the race while he got his brief rest/ breather, (scores of interval racing it was/is). The secret was to know how to circle the track so that your exchange came just right for the sprint lap to "set your" partner "up" and then get your relief not too far after the line so he didn't have to chase too far to get to you after a hard sprint. Or if you were devious, (and strong) you went or kept right on going after the sprint to gain a lap on the field as guys would briefly let up and you were gone, but other guys were watching like hawks to so it was like a chess game of fake, feint and attack. That's why guys would talk to one another during the push to plan strategy and be on same page. No use going for a lap if your partner is tired, then you sat in and recuperated a little . Well, you got more out of me than gloving again, but that's the way it goes. As to not hearing about gloving until a year and a half or so ago, wow! that gang is rather uninformed or very newbie. Hard for me to believe that someone doesn't know about that stuff around the
trade/sport.
Ted Ernst
Palos Verdes Estates
CA USA


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted E. Baer"
To: Joseph Bender-Zanoni
Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [CR]Stopping a fixed gear in Ted's day.



>
> It's Ted. No not the charter member; the "chatter
> member". I almost chimed in on the thread about
> lubing bicycle parts with bacon grease (as it was
> right up my alley) but refrained from doing so as I
> was certain I would receive a warning. I once lubed
> an upright band-saw with peanut oil and the blade
> broke!
>
> Couple of things about the other Ted's (the "charter
> member's") post:
>
> I am trying to imagine using a glove to stop a
> bicycle. Now when you reach down to press on the tire
> I assume you are putting your hand on the area of the
> tire in front of the fork crown right? Also, what
> kind of glove did you use to use? I tried "gloving"
> with a baseball mitt this past summer. And had I been
> in shape I probably would have been able to stop the
> bicycle. Instead, I burned a hole in the glove and
> had to drag both feet on the ground all the while
> trying to hold myself up so as I wouldn't damage the
> "family jewels."
>
> The first I ever heard of gloving was about a year ago
> in this post from an esteemed rider by the name of Ty
> Doleman. I found the post here in the archives:
>
> http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10512.1129.eml
>
> Ted E. Baer
> where "the gloves are off" and it's a rainin' buckets
> in
> Palo Alto, CA
>
> --- Joseph Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> Ted said:
>>
>> "The rear bridges also are not that strong, so it's
>> nicer to put /make
>> up a clamp arrangement that that won't squeeze your
>> seatstays and do
>> damage.
>> I don't think I would ride a fully restored vintage
>> frameset and bolt on
>> frame clamps, etc. to ride around on."
>>
>> Ted is right. I machined up a rear clamp for my Pop
>> Brennan. It was a
>> complete custom fit, wrapping around all the way
>> around the stays, right
>> beneath the bridge etc. Well a year later, about
>> 1994, the stay
>> detached. I brought it down to Irvington, NJ, jigged
>> it up and Bill
>> Brennan (Pop's son) brazed it. The shop closed soon
>> after as I suppose
>> Bill was in his 80's and the neighborhood was a tad
>> rough.
>>
>> Buy a Frejus. Stout fork and drilled. A great track
>> bike for the road.
>>
>> By the way, lots of great track bikes came with
>> drilled forks. Sieber,
>> an option on Paramount.
>>
>> Joe Bender-Zanoni
>> Great Notch, NJ
>>
>> ernst wrote:
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "ternst"
>> <ternst1@cox.net>
>> > To: "Elizabeth & Warren" <warbetty@eastlink.ca>
>> > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 5:36 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [CR]Stopping a fixed gear in Ted's
>> day.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Ok guys and gals, here's the skinny "when WE used
>> to ride" hah!.
>> >> First: Be careful on putting brakes on the front
>> round blade forks
>> >> and how hard you stop.
>> >> Not all those old forks have design line crowns
>> and the round blades
>> >> will flex somewhat more than the oval road blades
>> and remember that's
>> >> why they put the uneven line on the lugs to break
>> up the stress riser
>> >> lines.
>> >> Putting a road fork in is not that bad an idea if
>> you use the bike a
>> >> lot.
>> >> The rear bridges also are not that strong, so
>> it's nicer to put /make
>> >> up a clamp arrangement that that won't squeeze
>> your seatstays and do
>> >> damage.
>> >> I don't think I would ride a fully restored
>> vintage frameset and bolt
>> >> on frame clamps, etc. to ride around on.
>> >> Learn how to glove your wheel and ride for show
>> and around on flatter
>> >> ground. It would be a shame to damage a primo
>> bike by putting brakes on.
>> >> Warren's finder CCM on "E" is nice and those
>> brakes work?
>> >> Those old contraptions some times can be adjusted
>> to stop fair, but
>> >> remember kiddies, the hard core riders grin and
>> tell you brakes are
>> >> only to moderate , modulate, and slightly control
>> speed, they are not
>> >> there to stop.
>> >> What the hell, you some kinda sissy? Snicker, or
>> so say the hotshots
>> >> when pulling beginner's legs.
>> >> Back to the track. I keep getting side anecdoted.
>> >> By the way, 50x16 is 25x8 or an 88" gear as we
>> used to measure with
>> >> 28" wheelchart. That was a most popular gear for
>> average fixed
>> >> racing. 26x8 was for the good guys on road, and
>> the team race and
>> >> six-day gear of choice, which was called 91. The
>> sprinters used
>> >> 25,24,23x7 which had more leverage from
>> chainwheel
>> >> to crank end so had a slightly quicker jump, but
>> not the rolling of
>> >> the larger chainwheels for longer distance races.
>> The smaller CW's
>> >> "died" sooner and you had to push a little harder
>> to keep them
>> >> rolling than the big chainwheel that rolled
>> longer and it was just a
>> >> little easier in the team and mass start long
>> events.
>> >> First you need to get nice heavier duty gloves so
>> they don't wear
>> >> through too fast. Best to use two so you become
>> ambidextrous, just in
>> >> case.
>> >> You stop the front wheel with your glove and a
>> firm flat palm/hand
>> >> which is forced down on TOP of the front tire
>> with the pressure to
>> >> stop as you need by placing your forearm behind
>> the bar , flat palm
>> >> on tire, and the wedging/pushing your forearm
>> against the bar like a
>> >> lever and fulcrum.
>> >> If you do it hard enough, you can lift your back
>> wheel off the ground
>> >> real easy if you practice it when standing next
>> to your bike and
>> >> executing the discipline correctly.
>> >> At first you will have a little bruising or a
>> soreness in your
>> >> forearm, but pretty soon you toughen up and you
>> get so hard you can
>> >> eat brick ice cream and rock candy.
>> >> Now as Popeye's playmates you are ready to ride
>> faster and practice
>> >> quicker stopping.
>> >> Oh yeah, remember to loosen your toe strap before
>> you start slowing
>> >> so you can get your foot out and not fall down on
>> your osteoporitic
>> >> hip. That's why we never put the top of the strap
>> in the loop so we
>> >> could flik the strap open on the downstroke with
>> our thumb just
>> >> before we start our stopping.
>> >> All you old fogies ain't getting any younger
>> except in your mind and
>> >> when you look at the Playboy calendar.
>> >> As you start gloving the wheel, the reason you
>> keep you hand flat is
>> >> to prevent sidewall friction and wear on your
>> sewup tires, too much
>> >> rubbing and you could damage the sidewall casing.
>> >> Rider's have grabbed the front wheel and locked
>> in extreme cases for
>> >> a panic situation.
>> >> While gloving your wheel, it's important to slide
>> your butt backwards
>> >> on the bike proportionally to the intensity of
>> braking.
>> >> This keeps your balance better and puts weight on
>> the back wheel so
>> >> it doesn't skid as easily, because as your doing
>> this you are gently
>> >> back pedalling to resist the motion at the same
>> time.
>> >> It's the gloving and simultaneous backpedalling
>> with backwheel weight
>> >> done skilfully that gives you the quickstop!
>> >> Your non-gloving wheel is steering and holding
>> your body weight back
>> >> on the saddle to balance you out, to make this
>> tricky sounding
>> >> manuver much easier and fluid. Guys with bigger
>> butts could be called
>> >> pearshaped like the guy in the old cartoon strip,
>> but in our street
>> >> parlance we referred to them as BA's
>> >> After awhile it becomes psychosomatic, the
>> braking that is.
>> >> Like the guys in the plumbing shop two doors down
>> from our bikestore
>> >> used to tell us,(they were all fat, cigar smoking
>> redneck kinda guys)
>> >> as they always came out and kidded the riders
>> when we had 10-12 guys
>> >> out front on the sidewalk in their cycling attire
>> going for training
>> >> rides, that we all had size 60 chests and size 2
>> hats.
>> >> So bikes rider being notorious for not having any
>> brains anyways or
>> >> they wouldn't be riding bikes, could obviously do
>> the track bike fast
>> >> stopping without thought.
>> >> You knew I could tie all this together, just like
>> a bike race strategy.
>> >> Yeah it always felt faster when wet, but gloving
>> didn't work worth a
>> >> damn in the rain, so we always sloed down in
>> training, but when
>> >> caught out in rain during a race you REALLY had
>> to be careful on oil
>> >> sliks, painted street letters/lines and stuff
>> like that. Many a rider
>> >> and bunches fall down go boom with track bikes
>> because it was an
>> >> accident waiting to happen. But it was fast and
>> fun.
>> >> Hope this gives a little better idea and trust
>> youse all will chime
>> >> in with a few of your war stories and we can have
>> some timely
>> >> timeline exchanges for our very own.
>> >> There I go, right back to team race mode.
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth &
>> Warren"
>> >> <warbetty@eastlink.ca>
>> >> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> >> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 3:03 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [CR]Stopping a fixed gear in Ted's
>> day.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I think you really needed to develop that
>> braking skill to survive.
>> >>> Have a look at this original condition 30's CCM
>> racer on ebay.
>> >>>
>> >>> #*http://tinyurl.com/yat8og
>> >>>
>> >>> *It came stock to the public with a 50 X 16
>> fixed gear and those
>> >>> Endricks are the rare Dunlops with 647 mm beads.
>> (no replacement
>> >>> tires there.) I think that's over 90 gear
>> inches. Inagine the
>> >>> potential horror when you flip the wheel over to
>> ride the 18 tooth
>> >>> freewheel and start downhill. Near certain-death
>> on todays urban
>> >>> streets.
>> >>>
>> >>> It has the rear Phillips boat-anchor brake of
>> course. You just had
>> >>> to heave it into the gutter and maybe it would
>> catch a sewer grate.
>> >>>
>> >>> Warren Young
>> >>> Wolfville NS.
>> >>>
>> >>> Kristopher Green wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Chuck Scmidt wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> One additional note here: you just know that
>> if today's bike
>> >>>> messengers knew about how the hard men (Ted's a
>> Charter Memeber)
>> >>>> braked the front tire with their hand back in
>> the day, they'd be all
>> >>>> over it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ______________
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yup.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/tty7m
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Kristopher John Hicks-Green
>> >>>> Olympia, Washington (State)
>> >>>> United States of America
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>> >>>> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> >>>>
>>
> http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
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>> >
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