Re: [CR]ethics of buying and selling (was re: ASC sturmey Archer etc)

(Example: Framebuilders:Chris Pauley)

Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:23:34 -0400
From: <oroboyz@aol.com>
References: <44ADE207.4030608@optonline.net>
In-Reply-To: <44ADE207.4030608@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]ethics of buying and selling (was re: ASC sturmey Archer etc)
To: joebz@optonline.net, chasds@mindspring.com
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

<< I have paid a pawnbroker a silly amount to rescue a screwed up McLean Fonvielle bike because someone had to. A 600+ mile drive in the day to boot. And, with the help of many others on the list, I have liquidated the bicycles and parts of a friend who died for his widow. For an amount that made her feel secure during her transition to being self sufficient. It took all my free time for two months. >>

And for those acts alone, to me, you will always be a HERO!!!! Thanks again a million times...

Dale Brown Greensboro, NC USA

-----Original Message----- From: Joseph Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net> To: chasds@mindspring.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 00:24:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [CR]ethics of buying and selling (was re: ASC sturmey Archer etc)

OK, I'll admit it. I'm a red blooded American capitalist who wheels and deals in bicycles and parts. For fun, as a hobby, to liquidate the tons of never needed stuff accumulated in order to have "stock" to complete bikes and to pay for my follies (restorations). I have turned over good finds for a large profit within an hour of purchase and I have lugged frames around to swaps for 3 years to eventually sell them for less than I had in them. I have held a set of Campagnolo "Con Dente" pedals in my hands, available for $10 at the start of the Trexlertown meet, from the celebrated box under the table, and thrown them back because I would only turn them into cash and because someone else would enjoy the find. I have paid a pawnbroker a silly amount to rescue a screwed up McLean Fonvielle bike because someone had to. A 600+ mile drive in the day to boot. And, with the help of many others on the list, I have liquidated the bicycles and parts of a friend who died for his widow. For an amount that made her feel secure during her transition to being self sufficient. It took all my free time for two months.

My point is simple. I am a hobbiest at buying and selling bike parts and people could point to my "sharpest" deals and say I was exploitative. They don't know my "dullest" deals. I suspect I have never made 10 cents on the whole. I have often wondered how the people with better knowledge and commitment, like Hilary Stone, Greg Parker, Ray Etherton, Mike Kone, Martin Coopland, Curtis Anthony and John Barron have stuck out tying up their cash, expertise and time to help others get needed bikes and parts. I think it is fair to say that no one is getting rich on vintage bikes and parts and few are making any more money than they could applying their energy to less glorious attentions.

Joe Bender-Zanoni\ Great Notch, NJ

chasds@mindspring.com wrote:
   > Nigel Land wrote, in part:
   >
    > "when he discovered a rare Elswick-Hopper catalogue a couple or so years a
   > go
    > >> on a stall run by a fellow V-CC member. He bought it and brought ot over >> > to
    > >> me immediately and sold it at a good profit. I discovered its origin a sh
   >> > ort
    > >> while later, when I showed it to the erstwhile owner. We both agreed that
   >> > it
    > >> 'wasn't exactly cricket, old chap.' OK, fair deal for a dealer, but I am
    >> buying catalogues for a reseach project and for eventual gift to the V-CC
    >> library, as I am the marque enthusiast for that (much neglected) company.
   >> > At
    > >> the time I resented being ripped off by someone who professes to be an
    >> expert and source of knowledge, and who, at the time, was a committee mem
   >> > ber
   >
   > ********
   >
    > I realize Hilary can and will speak for himself far better than I can, but I just could not let this particular comment stand unaddressed.
   >
    > I think there's a basic misunderstanding at work here. I simply fail to understand how it is that Nigel was "ripped off" by Hilary. Where's the problem? Hilary found a cool catalog, that he *knew* was cool from long experience. He paid a fair price for it, and he sold it to Nigel for a price Nigel apparently thought was fair.
   >
    > I can see Nigel tasting some sour grapes over it, but that's not Hilary's problem. That's Nigel's problem, imho.
   >
    > Hilary made a point of *finding* the catalog, and knowing who might want it. Both those things are worth money.
   >
    > I have friends who are *ace* swap-meet pickers. They seem to have a nose for it, and the patience and fortitude to wade through a seemingly endless sea of junk to find the good stuff. I am more than happy to pay them extra for this fortitude, which I myself lack almost entirely.
   >
    > So, I differ completely with Nigel. Hilary does us *all* a great service by single-mindedly finding all this cool stuff for us to have a crack at. He deserves every franc he can earn thereby. >
    > Let's note that this is a professional activity for Hilary, and I am WELL aware of the annoyance I feel when someone asks for my professional capacities at no compensation, or well under their value. I might give them, but purely as a favor. Otherwise, I expect to be paid for my professional competence, and I expect to pay others for the same.
   >
    > I've also done numerous deals with Hilary, always at a fair price, and always with the utmost professionalism. An experience many of us have had, I'm sure.
   >
    > So, Nigel, I guess what I'm saying...just one man's opinion here...you're entitled to your feelings, and your opinion, but I think both are misguided.
   >
   > Charles "lazy" Andrews
   > SoCal
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   > Classicrendezvous mailing list
   > Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
   > http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
   >
   >
   _______________________________________________
   Classicrendezvous mailing list
   Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
   http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous