sorry for the bummer craig...as a former bicycle shop owner i would say that there are some basic tenets that apply to all business(men, people,women)....be they sellers over the internet or at a bricks and mortar operation....when i first read the lengthy email the "baron" posted to this site about bringing a container of parts to america (lots of goodies mentioned) i was skeptical of what he claimed he woulld be able to do...i think he started off on the wrong foot... w/ grabbing people to help him load the container deep into the night, he himself suffering injury...his description of the "help" sounded to me that he didn't really know everyone all that well and he was rushing to jam everything in to meet a deadline. he didn't paint a very organized picture of his move w/ tons of valuables, many seeming to be bundles of tires but lots of small stuff...who knows if everything actually made it into the container, and maybe those are parts he is scratching his head over now and can't deliver...he himself could have been a victim of a swindle, discovered long after the culprits vanished into the night...BUT, that does not relieve him of his obligation to be forthright w/ us...of those that have said they have just given up i am curious....did you place an order, send money, and not receive your goods???...or did you place an order, and merely have not received your goods??? there is a hugh difference between the two that is not being made clear enough for me to cast this couple to "bicycle hell"....are they old, confused, and basicly overwhelmed w/ the job they signed up for???...or are they selectively ripping people off for 50 bucks here and 50 bucks there???... that i would like to know so that we can take a chance w/ them or not,#1 based on whether they are stealing money, or #2 are poor business people who lose email addresses, don't return email inquieries, but generally would fall into the organizationally challenged catagory but good meaning...i've had to deal w/ a few stinker ebay sellers over the years but mostly people want to keep their feedback at or near 100%....for us i think that if their are those among us that don't treat us right, they should be identified after going thru channels ( another job for dale)....personally i like to look at and handle the goods before i lay my mostly nonexistent cash on the barrel head....or, at least have the right of return w/ full refund if something arrives thru the post that isn't quite right or as described.... otherwise why let anyone offer goods to each other at this forum....it's one thing for people here to get worked up over frame angles and what they mean, and quite another to misrepresent sale items, collect money from one another, and refusal to make good on an item someone wants to return for refund but can't. either we adhere to basic good business practice w/ one another or i say let the buyer beware, tuff if you get ripped here at the CR forum.....who wants that??? what's bad for one is bad for us all...if the "baron" gets support here it's from someone who has gotten his stuff...that does'nt count, that's what he's supposed to do!!!... but if people here are actually sending $$$ and hearing nothing back but excuses than that should be known to us all....it takes the "baron" to bring out other stories that i've heard, we've all heard, off list, about those among us that behave poorly. i'm not an angel and have bought my share of things that seemed priced too low to be true ( i didn't say hey, you know you could get triple for this. leastwise not before i bought and took home a super deal )...so what ARE we talking about???...did he take your money and give you an excuse instead of what you ordered?...or is he just an irresponsible ebusiness man? i for one, would like to know before i fall prey to a stinker. charlie flaherty baltimore maryland usa