Well, while I said earlier that it is impossible to say what is the "best bike ever", CR members, including myself, have in the past made similar claims in regard to components, which are probably also impossible to prove
For example, I believe Sheldon's website describes the Lyotard Marcel Berthet pedals as, "The best pedals ever made for use with toe clips and straps." I have in the past wholeheartedly agreed with Sheldon here on that point, and I still do. But others say they have experienced bent axles with the Berthets, and it is well documented that Berthets, like most Lyotard pedals, show a very high degree of variation in actual thread diameter, to the degree that "French" and "English" become relative terms.
Likewise, Simplex Retrofriction shifters have been described by a number of CR members as, "The best non-indexed shifters ever made." and I have agreed with that statement as well. I've heard less disagreement on that one, but it is true that Retrofrictions require noticeably more lever movement to shift the same RD than do Campy shifters, which no doubt annoys some people. Plus arguments could be made for the barely Off-Topic Campy C-Record "retrofriction" shifters, or the very much On-Topic Suntour racheted barcons or even the SunTour racheted downtube shifters as being as good or better than the Simplexes.
So I suppose very many of us are guilty of making statements about the "best ever" this or that, which like "best bike ever" are impossible to prove.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX
Jay Sexton <jvs@sonic.net> wrote: Don,
You like the bike and it speaks to you...cool. Best bike ever?? I don't think so. There is no best bike ever. That is a ridiculous claim. It is what it is and if you like it that's all that matters.
Next subject please.
Jay Sexton Sebastopol, CA
Don Wilson wrote:
> > Dale,
> > There has to be a first time I respectfully disagree
> > with you and this is it. Masterpieces are not measured
> > in linear, discretely quantifiable terms of how much
> > work went into them. If they were, then every
> > mastercraftsman would just do more work than the last
> > guy and grab the honor of masterpiece. Masterpieces
> > are, for lack of a better word, binary phenomena. They
> > happen, or they don't. The Mona Lisa is not the best
> > crafted or composed painting of the Florentine
> > renaissance by far. Leonardo did at least one that I
> > think was far better in every estimable way but one:
> > the Mona Lisa is a masterpiece and Leonardo's other
> > paintings are masterful paintings. Frankly, the arts
> > and crafts are full of masterpieces that weren't the
> > best crafted of their time. They just work magically
> > well in a way that is absolutely frustrating to other
> > craftsmen and artists (often subsequentely even to the
> > one who made the masterpiece) out there spilling their
> > guts out in execution wondering why their piece does
> > not make the final lyrical leap into greatness.
> >
> > Don Wilson
> > Los Olivos, CA USA
> > --- oroboyz@aol.com wrote:
> >
>
>> >> To answer your question of "Best bike ever?"
>> >>
>> >> No, a very nice bike, but far from that in my
>> >> humble opinion...
>> >>
>> >> Don, have you watched that Discovery channel show
>> >> about that family who make choppers? Their business
>> >> is Orange County Choppers? It is stupid in many ways
>> >> but a good illustration of this bike versus other
>> >> fine bikes.
>> >>
>> >> This family take parts (frame,tank, engine, lights,
>> >> etc) assemble them very nicely, then tack on a few
>> >> parts they make and add a (intentionally) compelling
>> >> "theme". Paint & gee gaws get tacked on that reflect
>> >> the theme, (a mini ladder gizmo for Fire Station
>> >> theme, etc.)
>> >>
>> >> Contrast these guys to the other MC builders who
>> >> make their own frame, tank (Ala Jesse James) and
>> >> components... I forget the names of the other guys
>> >> (don't watch this stuff much) but there is a guy
>> >> over in Winston Salem who makes bikes from the
>> >> ground up that are frankly amazing... I am no
>> >> chopper fan but it doesn't take too much of a
>> >> stretch to admire some of these guys craftsmanship
>> >> and effort to make unique and personal "statements"
>> >> in their motorcycles...
>> >>
>> >> When you look back at the first family, despite all
>> >> their press and celebrity, you realize they build
>> >> motorcycles that are well received but are rather
>> >> superficial when compared to the "real" ground up
>> >> motorbike builders...
>> >>
>> >> This is sort of the case for this Chris Chance
>> >> bike...
>> >> Yes, very tasty and cool in paint color, nice
>> >> add-on emblems and competently assembled, but when
>> >> compared to a Sachs or Baylis or Bruce Gordon or
>> >> Weigle or Peter Johnson or Chris Kvale and others,
>> >> well, it is just a nice assembly using minimally
>> >> modified Henry James lugs, in a relatively boring
>> >> and stock looking format. The tacked on bits are
>> >> most of what make it unique. The other builders I
>> >> listed make frames that are so original, involve so
>> >> much hand work and achieve their own unique look &
>> >> style.... you just can't add on a water jet cut
>> >> emblem and get to where they are.
>> >>
>> >> Actually I have seen Chris Chance frames that are
>> >> more artfully made and closer to the halcyon
>> >> heights, just no brazed on trinkets save his nice
>> >> head badge...
>> >>
>> >> Dale Brown
>> >> Greensboro, North Carolina USA
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: dcwilson3@yahoo.com
>> >> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> >> Sent: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 3:09 AM
>> >> Subject: [CR]Ebay Chris Chance...best bike ever?
>> >>
>> >> This Chris Chance would have to be in the running
>> >> were
>> >> a competition held. It IS the most beautifully
>> >> elegant
>> >> bike I have ever seen. This man took minimalist
>> >> elegance to another level with this bike. The paint
>> >> scheme is brilliant and so is the construction. I
>> >> even
>> >> like the stars and I'm not normally a fan of such
>> >> details.
>> >> 120074566094
>> >>
>> >> Below I have copied the seller's summary. It needs
>> >> to
>> >> be in the archives. I hope someone on CR gets this
>> >> piece of rolling art. It makes me proud to be an
>> >> American just looking at the pictures.
>> >>
>> >> Don Wilson
>> >> Los Olivos, CA USA
>> >>
>> >> "The Bicycle Exchange was New England's leading
>> >> seller
>> >> of high-end cycles, components, and sundries for
>> >> over
>> >> 50 years, and launched many careers of competitive
>> >> amateur and professional cyclists. Ben Olken, the
>> >> founder, was considered the Godfather of the
>> >> regional
>> >> trade.
>> >>
>> >> This track cycle was hand built by framebuilder
>> >> Chris
>> >> Chance as a special gift to Ben Olken, to
>> >> commemorate
>> >> 50 years in the business (1934-1984). It is built of
>> >> Columbus SL tubing, custom detailed HJ lugset and
>> >> crown. 55 cm center to center seat tube and top
>> >> tube.
>> >> Finished in metallic amethyst with black enamel rear
>> >> triangle, fork blades, and headtube. It is a rare
>> >> and
>> >> stunning example of Chris Chance's work. As many
>> >> know,
>> >> Chris Chance was a graduate of the Witcomb school of
>> >> framebuilding, and launched his business in the mid
>> >> 70's, initially concentrating on high-end racing
>> >> cycles, before launching the FatChance line of
>> >> mountain bikes, SlimChance production racing cycles,
>> >> and finally selling out his business to retire in
>> >> Vermont.
>> >>
>> >> Complete cycle is NOS, and has never seen a road or
>> >> track surface. Best track bike at Lars Anderson.
>> >> Details includes stainless steel badge
>> >> embellishments,
>> >> such as the headbadge, BiEx 1934-1984 commemorative
>> >> badge on the seat tube, "Ben" badge on left side of
>> >> top tube, "star" fork crown badges - all
>> >> jewelry-like
>> >> in detail. The bike is absolutely stunning, with
>> >> many
>> >> custom tuned component touches. Show, concours
>> >> condition, completely original, unadulterated.
>> >> Component group includes:
>> >>
>> >> * Campagnolo Record HS/BB
>> >> * Campagnlo Record crankset, 170mm, with milled
>> >> crankarms, milled spiders, Star chainring cutouts
>> >> * Campagnolo SR seatpost
>> >> * Campagnolo SF 28/28 Pista hubs, DT spokes,
>> >> Vittoria Pista CX tubulars
>> >> * Campagnolo SL Pista pedals with ICS clips,
>> >> Cinelli straps
>> >> * Cinelli Unicanitor black suede pista saddle
>> >> * Nisi Pista Speciale "For Professional Use
>> >> Only"
>> >> rims, black anodized
>> >> * Cinelli Pista handlebars (old logo) with
>> >> milled
>> >> old logo 1A stem, Benotto Tape/plugs
>> >>
>> >> D.C. Wilson dcwilson3@yahoo.com