Re: [CR]Borderline off-topic Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe question - shy perhaps on topic?

(Example: Production Builders:Pogliaghi)

From: <hersefan@comcast.net>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]Borderline off-topic Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe question - shy perhaps on topic?
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:10:13 +0000


Hi CR listers,

One "issue" with cutting off Victory/Triumph is that many of the parts of those groups interchange with NR/SR components and small parts. Things like axles, brake hardware, BRAKE HOODS, and chainring bolts are exact replacements and identical to Campy NR. In fact, Victory headsets are nearly identical to Campy NR headsets! So good understanding of the Campy Catalog 18bis catalog is often the roadmap to navigating officially blessed spares for time-line bikes.

And without openeing a can of worms, some of the stuff was really nice - a Campy Victory equipped Italian SL or SLX bike is often not very valuable but will ride identically and work just about as well as a Campy SR equipped machine from a few years earlier.

And just for the purists - I have been trying to sell Campy Triumph prototype cranks for ages (with no luck it seems) which have a 2 in a circle - so the stuff was under development in the early 80's well under the 86 cut-off.

Mike Kone in Boulder CO


-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos

> I suspect the dislike of C-Record/Victory/Triomphe is a big reason our esteemed
> listmeister chose The 1983 cutoff date, rather than letting it progress to 20
> years before the current year as it did early in the history of the CR list.
>
> Personally I have a different view of these gruppos, as I think they addressed
> several shortcomings of Campy compared to French components and to Shimano and
> SunTour components which were already becoming important competitors.
>
> The C-Record was the first short-cage Campy RD (I think maybe the Rally was
> earlier) to use a spring-loaded upper pivot which Simplex had used since the
> 60's or maybe even late 50's. This improved shifting, especially when using a
> fairly wide gear range.
>
> Wider range gearing was also provided by the smaller bolt circles of 116 BCD
> on Victory/Triomphe and 135 on C-Record, allowing the Victory/Triomphe cranks a
> wider range than Stronglight or Zeus and C-Record at least closer to the range
> of rings with Dura Ace. Of course, the 116 BCD 5-arm eventually became an
> "orphan" size, but Valentino could not have foreseen that.
>
> And I think we often overlook what I believe are the very excellent C-Record
> "retrofriction" downtube shifters, which IMHO work as well as Simplex and don't
> have the large lever movement that some find annoying about the Simplexes.
>
> And even the Delta brakes, if adjusted properly, work much better than their
> reputation would suggest.
>
> None of the above components, except maybe the Deltas, were really a break
> with classic design, but rather represented answers to features already offered
> by competitors well within the CR timeline.
>
> Allowing the CR cutoff to adjust each year would, it is true, allow such
> "modern" features as indexed shifting and clipless pedals, but Campy was not the
> company to first offer these.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, TX
>
> oroboyz@aol.com wrote:
> << I've always thought that the Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe (and
>
> C-Record as well) weren't introduced until 1986, as the #18 Catalogue (printed
>
> 1985) shows not a mention of them at all. >>
> I myself am not sure about exact dates... but philosophically, I think
> Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe fit better after the CR cutoff.
>
> In other words, it was that period in which Valentino Campagnolo "did his own
> thing", introducing new, marginally engineered components and started phasing
> out his dad's stuff (GS, NR & SR).
>
> I view Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe as the beginning of an embarassing period
> (including "C-Record") and it took at least ten years, plus or minus for them to
> get out of the slump.
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, North Carolina USA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dbilenkey@sympatico.ca
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 7:52 PM
> Subject: [CR]Borderline off-topic Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe question
>
> Now Dale, before you go giving me the heave-ho, please indulge me this
> question of our esteemed members. It is Campagnolo and it is non-aero
> and
> friction shifting. :-)
>
> Replies off-list though if you please so as to keep me out of hot water!
>
> Having gotten into a long winded email discussion with a eBay seller
> about
> these cranks:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280071106481
>
> Trying to convince him they were Triomphe and not Victory, got us to his
> assertion that his 1984 Gitane (see borderline to the cut-off date) came
> with this equipment and me saying he must have his dates off. He pointed
> to
> this catalogue pic:
>
> http://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1985_pg2.jpg
>
> I've always thought that the Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe (and
> C-Record
> as well) weren't introduced until 1986, as the #18 Catalogue (printed
> 1985)
> shows not a mention of them at all. And then in this discussion he
> points me
> to:
>
> http://campybike.com/
>
> and specifically:
>
> http://campybike.com/pdf/1984Campagnolo.pdf
>
> So this has me questioning a large part of my memory, and has me about
> to
> haul out boxes and boxes of Bicycling, Winning and Cyclist magazines to
> figure out when this stuff actually came out.
>
> Can those who have data and recollection about when Victory and Triomphe
> were available please drop me a line (off-line) and either back me up or
> shoot me down?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Now back to your regularly scheduled CR discussion...
>
> David
> --
> David Bilenkey
> Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
> dbilenkey@sympatico.ca
>
> http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/Bilenkeys-Bikestash/
>
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