Re: [CR]Borderline off-topic Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe

(Example: Events:Eroica)

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:49:54 +0000
From: "Hilary Stone" <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]Borderline off-topic Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe
References: <47574.17368.qm@web82205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001f01c73e64$0ea2f200$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51>
In-Reply-To: <001f01c73e64$0ea2f200$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51>
cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
cc: Syke - Deranged Few M/C
cc: Classic Rendezvous

The first multiple speed cassette hubs were launched by Simplex c1935. Their bearings were in the correct position at the end of the axle like Shimano and used slide-on sprockets with a hexagon shape, just the outer was threaded and there were versions taking up to five 3/32in sprockets. Bayliss-Wiley came on the scene in 1938. Trivelox also had a cassette hub available with three (non-sliding) sprockets at about the same time.

And Simplex was also the first with sprung top pivots ... in the 1930s.

Hilary Stone, Bristol, England

ternst wrote:
> And I have a very time line Cassette hub by Fichtel & Sachs from 1950
> that's going on the same vintage Durkopp.
> It does have friction shifting, though, but it's all timeline molto
> correctissimo. OR ELSE!
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA USA
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome & Elizabeth Moos"
> <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Syke - Deranged Few M/C" <sykerocker@yahoo.com>; "Classic
> Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Borderline off-topic Campagnolo Victory and Triomphe
>
>
>> I agree with what you propose, although Dale in the past has resisted
>> this, fearful I think, of allowing the "camel's nose into the tent".
>> There is already, of course, a rather loosely defined exception for
>> "KOF" frames, generally meaning lugged steel frames with tube
>> diameters and geometries not radically different from those used
>> before 1983.
>>
>> I also believe that C-Record, Victory/Triomphe, and also Mavic
>> gruppos are more "classic" than modern, but I'm not at all sure the
>> Supreme Listmeister shares that view. In fact he pretty clearly
>> doesn't in regard to Victory/Triomphe.
>>
>> I should point out though, that "cassette" gears are not necessarily
>> Off-Topic. Not only do the the Dura-Ace AX cassettes and (I think)
>> the Maillard Helicomatic predate 1983, but I have a Baylis-Wiley (or
>> is it Wiley-Baylis?) cassette hub from the 60's or maybe even late 50's.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry Moos
>> Big Spring, TX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Syke - Deranged Few M/C <sykerocker@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Since this is turning into a general thread of
>> discussion, please bear with me while I toss in my
>> point of view.
>>
>> This site has been invaluable to me - having dropped
>> out of EVERYTHING between 1978 and 2005, you guys have
>> been one hell of a help in catching me up on what I
>> missed, both in knowledge and hard parts. What drives
>> me nuts, beyond the inevitable anorak-ish discussion
>> of Masi (bearable) or the proper use of ghetto
>> (please, let that horse die in peace - NOW!!!), is
>> that when I need an answer to something that goes
>> beyond December 31, 1983, I can't get it here.
>>
>> As I write this, out of the six bikes either hanging
>> on the garage wall, or sitting in the back room at
>> work are a late 60's Magneet (my long haul tourer), an
>> early 70's Gitane Tour de France (the bike that tried
>> to kill me), and a mid/late 80's Rossin RL (my
>> absolutely favorite ride). The total significant
>> difference between those three bikes is that the right
>> shift lever on the Rossin goes 'click' when I change
>> gears. Period. Yet I can't ask any questions
>> regarding the bike because it's off-topic.
>>
>> I'd like to suggest a slight broadening of the
>> allowable topics - no, not the classic bike/car bit of
>> 25 years. Doing that, within ten years of starting
>> the transition we'd be so far off-topic that the group
>> no longer has any meaning.
>>
>> What I'd like to suggest is a small allowance for
>> newer technology - as long as we're still talking a
>> lightweight road bike, the frame is lugged (with
>> allowance made for parallel technologies of the same
>> years and intent), the gears do NOT shift from the
>> brake levers, and the rear gearing is not cassette, we
>> make it allowable. Despite the 'radical' changes of
>> 1984, those pre-1990 bikes still had a lot more in
>> common with something made in 1971 than one from 2001.
>>
>> Just tossing out a thread for thought - yeah, my
>> intent is selfish (boy, are there the questions I'm
>> going to ask if we add as little as seven years to the
>> allowable range), but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be
>> a good move overall.
>>
>> Looking forward to hearing other supportive/contrary
>> opinions.
>>
>> George R. "Syke" Paczolt
>> Montpelier, VA USA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
>> with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
>> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news