Another way to to discuss this is that with a radially flexible rim, a conventional wheel is a tension structure. The rider is supported by detensioning a number of the spokes over the contact area. So if you have less spokes, they need to be at a higher tension and may not work quite as well.
Radially stiff rims, be they heavy rims of old, aero rims with deep sections, carbon rims or whatever, contribute their own stiffness and essentially spread the detensioning over more rim area beyond the contact area and allow the use of fewer spokes.
Its all a matter of where you want to put the weight in the structure and modern wheels win out because less spokes have the additional benefit less wind resistance.
By the way, the on topic example is Roval wheels.
Joe Bender-Zanoni
Great Notch, NJ
> My dear Doland,
\r?\n>
\r?\n> If more spokes don't equal a stronger wheel one might conclude
\r?\n> it makes
\r?\n> no difference. There are designs with just 1,2 3, 4 and even
\r?\n> believe
\r?\n> it or not zero spokes out there. As I recall only the 3 and 4
\r?\n> spoke
\r?\n> carbon wheels gained any commercial viability.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> <> It is
\r?\n> no myth
\r?\n> from my experience.
\r?\n> It's not the spoke count that matters; it is the spoke count and
\r?\n> everything else. Gauge, style, material, rim, dish flange
\r?\n> design, and
\r?\n> of course construction details and tension that make a strong
\r?\n> wheel. If
\r?\n> you have to true a 36 holer less than a otherwise equal 32 spoke
\r?\n> wheel
\r?\n> a fair man might conclude a 36 hole wheel is stronger. Taking
\r?\n> away
\r?\n> structural material does not necessarily make a wheel stronger
\r?\n> (i.e.
\r?\n> double butted spokes) but it can improve certain characteristics
\r?\n> but
\r?\n> can also adversely effect other characteristics like stiffness.
\r?\n> This is
\r?\n> important for some, less important for others.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> The modern aero deep dish rims that use 20 spokes or less are
\r?\n> plenty
\r?\n> strong with a low spoke count. But look at those massive (and
\r?\n> heavy )
\r?\n> rims. The rims are incredible for brute strength and stiffness
\r?\n> and
\r?\n> simply require less spokes. Now resistance to rim cracking and
\r?\n> longevity seem to be a problem in my shop compared to
\r?\n> traditional
\r?\n> wheels; so their is a trade off there.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> As far as breaking spokes. Properly selected components for
\r?\n> intended
\r?\n> use and properly built wheels don't break spokes in normal use.
\r?\n> They
\r?\n> can with advancing years but the rims usually wear out first
\r?\n> from my
\r?\n> experience. For racing and fun you can always cheat the odds
\r?\n> and go a
\r?\n> little lighter but durability suffers.
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> <> From: "Cheung, Doland"
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Subject: RE: [CR]Wheel trouble
\r?\n>
\r?\n> I think modern wheels have pretty much debunked the myth that more
\r?\n> spokes = stronger wheel. I've yet to need to true my OT Campy modern
\r?\n> marvels that are 24/28 (I think).
\r?\n>
\r?\n> However, regarding traditional wheels, I've noticed that my old 32
\r?\n> holers required more trueing than my 36 holers. Less so with tubulars
\r?\n> than clinchers, but that could be mileage related. I almost
\r?\n> never break
\r?\n> spokes, unless some a** sticks a pedal in my wheel. And I only weigh
\r?\n> 135 pounds, give or take.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Doland Cheung
\r?\n> SoCal--
\r?\n>
\r?\n> -----Original Message-----
\r?\n> From: loudeeter@aol.com
\r?\n>
\r?\n> I hear these "if you are over xxx pounds", you should/should not ride
\r?\n> xxxx wheels. I weigh 220 pounds. I ride 28, 32, and 36 spoke wheels
\r?\n> with no problems with rims down to 280 grams. I have bikes with OT
\r?\n> wheelsets that are super light, 20, 24 spoke. I've never had a
\r?\n> problemwith the wheels warping. I have broken a few spokes,
\r?\n> although no more
\r?\n> than a few in the past six years of riding. >>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Yours in Cycling,
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Gilbert Anderson
\r?\n>
\r?\n> North Road Bicycle Company
\r?\n> PO Box 840
\r?\n> 166 Court Square
\r?\n> Yanceyville, NC 27379
\r?\n> USA
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Our newest direct local Yanceyville Area phone is 336-421-4054
\r?\n> Toll Free Research Triangle Area, NC area 919-828-8999
\r?\n> Toll free Nationwide 800-321-5511
\r?\n>
\r?\n> email: cyclestore@aol.com
\r?\n>
\r?\n> http://www.northroadbicycle.com ----> New Website Improved Daily