Although I'm a newbie, I'm somewhat surprised at this posting. A
lthough the original owner may be disappointed at the seller's violati
on of a promise to keep the frame, the seller really can't entail th
e frame, forcing the the buyer to retain it.
Furthermore, I'm quite pleased when a beautiful bike sells for a goo
d price. It's a form of justification of the financial end of our ho
bby.
As for the actual value of a collectible, it's what the seller was w
illing to pay. Comparisons with KOF frames and paint restorations are
really invidious. Furthermore, even here the prices mentioned are,
in my recent experience, much too low.
George Hollenberg MD
(CT, USA)
Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:59 am
Subject: Re: [CR]ebay madness
To: Peter Brown , classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Cc: douguk2007@hotmail.co.uk
> I agree in regard to the price, particularly if the buyer was
> American. Such classic English bikes seem to command higher
> prices in America than UK - "a prophet hath no honour in his own
> country" I suppose. Or perhaps simply the fact that these
> frames are scarcer in America.
>
> I think the price works out to about $US 700. Perhaps a bit
> above average for a restored frame, I agree. But a KOF frame
> from a leading builder will cost over $2,000 and often entail a
> one to two year wait. And as I recall, Rivendell gave up
> selling even its production Heron frame when they evidently
> couldn't make money at a $1,000 price. So an expertly restor
ed
> classic frame for $700 seems a bargain in comparison.
>
> Or, for a different comparison, an expert restoration by a top
> US painter, including correct transfers, will probably cost you
> at least close to $500, and often locating the transfers can be
> very difficult and time-consuming. And if there is chrome
> restoration involved, one can easily spend $700 on restoring a
> frame, as chrome has become very expensive. So from that point
> of view, $700 may be equivalent to paying for restoration of a
> frame that one received for free.
>
> So, like Peter, I can understand the annoyance at the frame
> being sold, but I agree with him that the price is not at all insa
ne.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, TX
>
>
>
>
> Peter Brown wrote:
> Doug Smith wrote:
>
>
>
> I never thought I would see the day when a frame that I once
> owned,
> restored
> and sold only late last year would go for £365.00 GBP's. I r
efer
> of
> course
> of the Claud Butler, Avant Coureur frame no. 91543. Apart from
> it being
> a
> wonderful example of the marque to sell for that money is in my
> opinion
> just
> plain madness. It appears to be utterly insane for anyone to pay t
hese
> prices thus making a complete mockery of collecting and saving
> these
> older
> frames as a hobby.
>
>
>
> There is no sour grapes on my part as some may think but only to fee
l
> slightly let down when I understood it would have stayed with
> purchaser
> as
> part
>
> of their collection. Maybe this could be warning to other
> members when
> deciding to sell some of their treasured possessions only to be
> exploited by
> others selling them on auction. Inflated prices seem to be the
> norm by
> some
> in our hobby and of course not helped by people willing to pay
> the
> price. So
> it will go on I suppose until the demand will inevitably dry up
> and the
> goods will no longer be available! Doug Smith North Dorset UK
>
>
> Whilst I can understand Dougs annoyance that someone should
> sell on a
> frame
> which he was led to believe was going to form part of a private
> collection,
> I do not accept that the price realised was madness. The price
> realised
> was
> totally realistic for a frame of that age and quality, hand
> built by
> craftsmen, and expertly restored. Compared to the prices some
> collectors
> are prepared to pay for production line frames of a later
> vintage, the
> current cost of some new frames which will probably never become a
> collectors item, and bearing in mind the current cost of
> restoring to
> that
> standard, that was a very fair price. Good luck to the buyer,
> and I am
> sure
> you will be able to ride your completed machine with great pride.
>
>
>
> Peter Brown, Lincolnshire, England
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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