Are ebay contracts really contracts? Ebay says up and down they are, but my limited understanding of the legal world tells me that for a contract to be enforcible, the buyer must have given consideration (i.e. that $1 bill again) - and unless the buyer actually had paid the money, than there really isn't any consideration and therefore its not a true legal contract.
Can those unlike myself who may really know what they are talking about add their input?
Mike "not a lawyer" Kone in Boulder CO
> Dear List:
>
> The legal details of the situation are murky. It depends on Aunt's title to
> the bike at the time of the garage sale. If she is/remained the owner of it on
> that date, she had the ability to transfer legal title at the garage sale, ebay
> seller bought it in good faith and therefore had legal title to aution it off.
> It looks as if Aunt "sorta" gave bike to John, so it depends on whether the gift
> to John was "completed", ie did John exercise ownership and dominion over bike.
> But the fact Aunt sold the bike indicates she didn't think she had given it to
> John. (All John had to do was hand Aunt a dollar ("good and valuable
> consideration" as the contract law books call it) and the deal would have been
> done with title passing to John.) But if Aunt said something equivocal like
> "You can take care of the bike for me" or such, then there may not have been a
> clear transfer of ownership, ebay seller was the legal owner, and more
> importantly, ebay buyer has a good legal claim to
> the bike. I see that Aunt and ebay seller agreed to undo deal, but there was
> no mention of ebay buyer. I hope ebay buyer was consulted before the deal was
> undone, or there may be a real problem here.
>
> Tom Adams, (can't stop being a lawyer) in Shrewsbury NJ
>
>
>
> John Price wrote:
> Brian and all,
> To make things even more interesting, your friend didn't end up with the
> bike, I did and it stayed in the family.
> My aunt without notifying any of the family sold it at a garage sale and it
> appeared on ebay and though the CR link I saw the bike and long story short,
> after freaking out I contacted my aunt who contacted the ebay seller (The
> Ebay guy who bought it at her garage sale) and asked for the 'family' Masi
> back, as we all told her we would never talk to her again otherwise. He
> complied and she refund the money he gave her for it. Since I have a couple
> of Masi's (MC # 0806, the newest or latest Carlsbad built frame in Bob's
> registry and a 98 Corsa), and I race and collect vintage bikes, (Brian and I
> have corresponded in the past) she made me the new keeper of the heirloom.
> When visiting her, when I looked at the bike briefly in Ventura, it never
> dawned on me the frame number,and it was always hidden behind a bunch of
> crap in her garage. That was until it 'appeared' on Ebay and the frame
> number was brought up by Bob Hovey. I look forward to sharing the details
> with the CR gang and hope you Brian, Jim C. and anyone else who can give me
> any insight and knowledge you can remember about the frame and circumstances
> around Masi's America start-up. For what it's worth I used to live in
> Carlsbad and my Brother still does, wonderful city!
> Sincerely,
> John Price
> Albuquerque, NM USA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
>
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 12:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]ebay outing: cool Masi
>
>
> >
> >
> > Bob and all,
> >
> > This is an interesting situation. Even though I've been ridiculously
> > busy since even before the Framebuilders Show, which was BTW
> > outstanding; nonetheless I hear about these types of auctions, usually
> > from someone wanting some information or my advice or input. In this
> > case, I received a call from one of my regular friends and infoseekers.
> > He told me about the bike but wanted to be sure it was the real deal
> > and original paint and all that. I didn't even look at the auction nor
> > see the photos, since I was driving to work at the time. I told the
> > caller, hang up the phone and hit the buy it now button without further
> > delay or he will hate himself for the rest of his life. He did as I
> > suggested. He is the new owner of the bike. There is a network of
> > information available. Hopefully you are the one who calls the correct
> > person at the correct time and gets the correct advice, and just in
> > time. I'm sure within a few more minutes, if not seconds, that bike
> > would belong to someone else.
> >
> > Since the seller did OK on his purchase, and the buyer did well also;
> > this would be a rare case of good luck for the new owner even though it
> > came through eBay. Just the right circumstances and choices of action
> > to win the deal. It can happen!
> >
> > Brian Baylis
> > La Mesa, CA
> > Vintage Cycle Studios and Baylis Cycles are moving!
> >
> >
> > -- BobHoveyGa@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 3/28/07 4:50:03 AM, Grant writes:
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:30:32 -0400
> >> From: Grant McLean
> >>
> >
> >> Wowie Zowie!!
> >> Glad it's too big for me, or I'd have cried myself to sleep for a mont
> > h.
> >> My favorite part of the seller's listing is:
> >> "I am not sure of the exact year of manufacture and I cannot find
> >> a serial number (unless it is 1.S1 as seen in photo #7)"
> >>
> >
> >> Yup, that "1" there would be a clue to something...
> >>
> >
> >> Grant McLean
> >> Toronto, Canada
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Indeed.
> >
> > A few of us have been having an interesting off-list conversation about
> > this
> >
> > auction... If the seller had not put a "Buy it Now" on the bike,
> > there might
> >
> > have been a few individuals (myself for sure) who would have written
> > him and
> >
> > told him what he had. Just out of consideration.
> >
> >
> > In this discussion, the question was posed that if the seller had
> > posted the
> >
> > bike on the CR list instead of eBay, would he have had dozens of emails
> >
> >
> > telling him either not to sell it, or that his price was too low ... or
> > would those
> >
> > folks have been outnumbered by those reaching for their checkbooks?
> >
> > Most of
> >
> > us agreed that the former would occur, since this list has been, by and
> > large,
> >
> > all about fellowship and fairness and educating each other.
> >
> > But eBay's a whole 'nother deal... maybe I'm wrong, but I think that mos
> > t
> >
> > folks are very quick to write a seller when he has described something
> >
> > incorrectly in a way that places the object in a better light, but not
> > as likely to
> >
> > write when he has described an item in a way that would tend to
> > undervalue it and
> >
> > thereby benefit the astute bidder.
> >
> > When it comes to Masis, I tend to write the seller in either case, to
> > correct
> >
> > any glaring inconsistency whether it might be of benefit to the bidder
> > OR the
> >
> > seller. But in this case, the seller made that impossible because I wa
> > s
> >
> > dead certain that by the time he read my email the bike would be gone,
> > gone,
> >
> > gone.
> >
> > So when you don't have a friendly group of pals to help you out as he
> >
> > probably would have had if he had posted the bike on the list, the only
> > alternative
> >
> > is a few minutes of what many would term "due diligence," which in this
> > case
> >
> > could mean as little as typing a few words in Google and exploring the
> > results.
> >
> > Most sellers are willing to do this, at least with Masis, since I've
> > gotten
> >
> > dozens of emails from folks who have stumbled across my web site and
> > either
> >
> > want more info on a Masi they're selling or want permission to post my
> > link in
> >
> > their eBay description. Some might suggest that there might be too
> > much info
> >
> > on my site for the mere passerby (and I'll freely admit that the site
> > was not
> >
> > created for them, but for the more rabid Masiphile), but I still don't
> > see how
> >
> > it would take more than about five or ten minutes of skimming to discove
> > r
> >
> > both the year of his bike and the significance of a "1S1" serial number
> > (either
> >
> > on the USA Registry page or my article on US serial numbers).
> >
> >
> > So if you combine a lack of basic research with his "Buy It Now" which
> > might
> >
> > have discouraged others besides myself from dropping him a cautionary
> > email,
> >
> > it's probably safe to say that the seller deserved to get exactly the
> > amount of
> >
> > money he asked for and not the amount that the bike was really worth.
> >
> > Bob Hovey
> > Columbus, GA
> > http://bhovey.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > **************************************
> > AOL now offers free email to everyone.
> >
> > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
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