[CR]Re: Is this an old Cinelli road frame or what?

Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PX-10LE
References: <463A72EE.7030002@verizon.net> <8C95BF8FDACCDCB-1018-F456@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <463A7EB1.1010408@verizon.net>
To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 20:35:10 -0400
In-Reply-To: <463A7EB1.1010408@verizon.net>
From: <oroboyz@aol.com>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]Re: Is this an old Cinelli road frame or what?


I hear this is the case: << there were much earlier drop-outs without the boss and hole. >>

Open C is the clue there (I am told)

Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA

-----Original Message----- From: hmsachs@verizon.net To: oroboyz@aol.com Cc: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Thu, 3 May 2007 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Is this an old Cinelli road frame or what?

With all due respect, Dale, I believe that the bike is post-1961. Either that, or the right rear dropout has been replaced. It is my understanding, which could be wrong, that 1961 and earlier Campy drop-outs with gear hangers all had a raised boss ~ 5 mm wide with a rounded upper edge. This extended from the gear hanger upwards. In almost all cases, this boss was penetrated by a small hole ~ 1 mm diameter, which was the stop for the tension spring on the Campy Sport and similar derailleurs. The pictures clearly show that this bike has neither boss nor hole.

To me, the simplest hypothesis is that this bike is post-1961. Alternatives: 1) pre-1961, but drop-out replaced later, perhaps when refinished. 2) Harvey's wrong, and there were much earlier drop-outs without the boss and hole. I'd love to find out about such.

I speculate, but it seems to me to be much easier to make a bike in the 1960s with earlier components than to make one in the 1950s with 1960s components. Indeed, I have one complete set each of 531 DB tubes and Columbus tubes, NIB, and waiting to build up a 1970s frameset each. :-)

thanks harvey sachs mcLean va.

oroboyz@aol.com wrote:

> I knew a few would love to challenge that query...
   > > That particular Altenburger-equipped Cinelli you refer to is now watched > over by Ken Wallace, proprietor and keeper of the women at the Bisbee > Bicycle Brothel. The serial number will tell us more...
   > > This just sold Cinelli is older than I( thought, subsequent details lead > many astute observers to place it at least solidly in the 1950s, even > early that decade...
   > > Dale Brown
   > cycles de ORO, Inc.
   > 1410 Mill Street
   > Greensboro, North Carolina 27408 USA
   > 336.274.5959
   > http://www.cyclesdeoro.com
   > http://www.classicrendezvous.com
   > > > -----Original Message-----
   > From: hmsachs@verizon.net
   > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
   > Sent: Thu, 3 May 2007 7:40 PM
   > Subject: [CR]eBay self-outing: Is this the oldest Cinelli road frame you > have
   > > Dale Brown asked, provocatively, > > "57 CM, serial #273! Early 1960s? Maybe even late 1950s? > > http://ebay.com/<blah>
   > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437>.