Re: [CR]Re: Is this an old Cinelli road frame or what?


Example: Production Builders:Teledyne
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 20:08:19 -0700
From: "Tam Pham" <terminaut@gmail.com>
To: "Jay Sexton" <jvs@sonic.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Is this an old Cinelli road frame or what?
In-Reply-To: <463A9941.9060604@sonic.net>
References: <MONKEYFOODxYaMztWFA000018f3@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

IMHO, it looks like the original dropouts might have been hacked off and "retrofitted" with another set of dropouts... Unless the 50's SCs just weren't built with aesthetics in mind. These dropout/stays junctions don't look very attractive to me:

http://www.cyclesdeoro.com/For-sale/Cinelli_SC_A/img_0643.jpg

Tam Pham Huntington Beach, CA - USA

On 5/3/07, Jay Sexton <jvs@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> Perhaps I am missing something - the bike being later seems to be rather
> obvious. The first clue is the lugs - they are the later style that came
> into use around the late 1950's. I think Pergolizzi's bike that was on ebay
> a few weeks ago had those earlier style lugs, and there are a number of
> Cinelli bikes out there that have them.
>
> Mebbe so, but what about those open C dropouts. Wouldn't these pre date
> the dropouts with the spring holes?
>
> Jay Sexton
> Sebastopol, CA
>
>
>
>
> To my eyes, the frame looks nearly identical to the one I had on ebay last
> week that didn't hit $700 (sold later off ebay for a good bit more, all very
> surprising). The dropouts on Dale's bike do look like later ones (the clue
> to the one I was selling as likely having had a dropout replacement I
> think). The one I sold was certainly built around 1959 to 1961. I'd peg the
> date of the bike in question as being from 1958 to even as late as 1967 -
> with the dropouts pushing the build date to the later period as wise Harvey
> Sachs points out.
>
> Cinelli Serial numbers from what I can tell are generally meaningless - a
> "stroll" through the Cupertino log book years ago showed very
> weak correlation between year and serial number, although bikes sold in
> very close time to one another often had close numbers. But those batches
> of similar numbers were not sequential. Quite maddening!
>
> Another clue would be if the bike in question accomodated the reproduction
> headbadge without difficulty - if so it is a late 50's bike or later. The
> really hard-to-find earlier bikes used a larger size headbadge with screws
> for fastening farther apart.
>
> Mike Kone in Boulder CO
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: oroboyz@aol.com
>
>
> > > Harv:
> > >
> > > I hear this is the case:
> > > << there were much earlier drop-outs without the boss and hole. >>
> > >
> > > Open C is the clue there (I am told)
> > >
> > >
> > > Dale Brown
> > > Greensboro, North Carolina USA