Re: [CR]Re: Is this an old Cinelli road frame or what?


Example: Framebuilders:Alex Singer
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 20:20:11 -0700
From: "Tam Pham" <terminaut@gmail.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Is this an old Cinelli road frame or what?
In-Reply-To: <b27bc5c00705032008t738a7ecblc3885701b155d5b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MONKEYFOODxYaMztWFA000018f3@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org> <463A9941.9060604@sonic.net>


As a point of reference here's how the joints look on my lowly 50's Mod. B with beat-up and dirty chrome:

http://www.chainedrevolution.com/images/bikes/misc/brevsimplex.jpg

Tam Pham Huntington Beach, CA - USA

On 5/3/07, Tam Pham <terminaut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> IMHO, it looks like the original dropouts might have been hacked off and
> "retrofitted" with another set of dropouts... Unless the 50's SCs just
> weren't built with aesthetics in mind. These dropout/stays junctions
> don't look very attractive to me:
>
> http://www.cyclesdeoro.com/For-sale/Cinelli_SC_A/img_0643.jpg
>
> Tam Pham
> Huntington Beach, CA - USA
>
>
> On 5/3/07, Jay Sexton <jvs@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps I am missing something - the bike being later seems to be rather
> > obvious. The first clue is the lugs - they are the later style that came
> > into use around the late 1950's. I think Pergolizzi's bike that was on ebay
> > a few weeks ago had those earlier style lugs, and there are a number of
> > Cinelli bikes out there that have them.
> >
> > Mebbe so, but what about those open C dropouts. Wouldn't these pre date
> > the dropouts with the spring holes?
> >
> > Jay Sexton
> > Sebastopol, CA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To my eyes, the frame looks nearly identical to the one I had on ebay
> > last week that didn't hit $700 (sold later off ebay for a good bit more, all
> > very surprising). The dropouts on Dale's bike do look like later ones (the
> > clue to the one I was selling as likely having had a dropout replacement I
> > think). The one I sold was certainly built around 1959 to 1961. I'd peg the
> > date of the bike in question as being from 1958 to even as late as 1967 -
> > with the dropouts pushing the build date to the later period as wise Harvey
> > Sachs points out.
> >
> > Cinelli Serial numbers from what I can tell are generally meaningless -
> > a "stroll" through the Cupertino log book years ago showed very
> > weak correlation between year and serial number, although bikes sold in
> > very close time to one another often had close numbers. But those batches
> > of similar numbers were not sequential. Quite maddening!
> >
> > Another clue would be if the bike in question accomodated the
> > reproduction headbadge without difficulty - if so it is a late 50's bike or
> > later. The really hard-to-find earlier bikes used a larger size headbadge
> > with screws for fastening farther apart.
> >
> > Mike Kone in Boulder CO
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: oroboyz@aol.com
> >
> >
> > > > Harv:
> > > >
> > > > I hear this is the case:
> > > > << there were much earlier drop-outs without the boss and hole. >>
> > > >
> > > > Open C is the clue there (I am told)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dale Brown
> > > > Greensboro, North Carolina USA