Obviously Brian is not aware of some of the most meaningful design mottos, such as: 'good architecture leaks' and 'Italian design furniture is not meant to sit on'. There must be more.
Freek 'I love flawed designs' Faro Rotterdam Netherlands
2007/5/10, brianbaylis@juno.com <brianbaylis@juno.com>:
>
>
> Garth,
>
> Perhaps I should explain further my impressions and opinions regarding
>
> the Cinelli Laser. And let me again state that the standard road
>
> version of the Laser is not at all the same laser that is represented
>
> by the Ken Denny Photos of the special Laser track sprint bike. That
>
> is one of the nicest pieces of design and construction I've ever seen
>
> for that type of bike.
>
> My first complaint about the road version is how the rear brake cable
>
> was routed through the top tube. There are three parts to my
>
> objections here. To begin with, the angle that the cable enters and
>
> exits the tubes is far too extreme, especially at the front of the top
>
> tube. The entry should be at a relaxed, gentle, and graceful angle for
>
> a number of reasons; not the least of which is that the brakes work
>
> MUCH better that way. Most important on the rear brake on account of
>
> the long route. Front brakes always work great (don't they?).
>
> Furthermore, the Cinelli does not have a continuous tube through the
>
> top tube (which explains why the entry is at nearly 90 degrees, an
>
> internal tube would not allow one to route a tube in such an awkward
>
> angle in the first place), and this makes is MUCH more difficult to
>
> route a brake cable housing. Not only do you have to fish a piece of
>
> brazing rod through there to slide the housing over, but the extreme
>
> angles at both ends make it very difficult. Try it some time. Making
>
> a "state of the art bicycle" should also include doing the basic
>
> simple functional things at least as good as anything else of the
>
> period; if not better or classier. They really dropped the ball here.
>
> To top it off, the appearance, not to mention the function, is
>
> compromised by that awful sharp angle. The cable turns much better,
>
> the cable doesn't chafe, and it looks ten times better and more
>
> refined if the proper entry angle and location are selected. OK,
>
> judging from the period; I promise you there were plenty of
>
> framebuilders who knew all this at the time. I promise!
>
> Shall we move on to the derailleur cable routing? Why the hell not. To
>
> begin with, I had to do a lot of work in the area around the braze-on
>
> for the shifters and the entry points where the cable goes inside the
>
> frame. Lots of bondo work and again not the ideal angle for the
>
> cables, but not nearly as bad as the brake cable routing. The real
>
> problem is how they failed to make a practical transition between the
>
> down tube and the seat tube (for ft. der.) and the chainstay (for rear
>
> der.) which made it a genuine certified nightmare to replace a
>
> deralleur cable. So much so that I opted to leave the cables in with
>
> the shifters still on them while I was restoring the bike, which made
>
> the job more difficult, but apparently not as difficult as the other
>
> alternative (unless you considered suicide). Anyway, if they had come
>
> up with a solution for this situation I would be REALLY impressed. But
>
> not so in this case; and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the aero
>
> bike built by Weigle that Alan mentioned during the thread at least
>
> had a much better approach if not some genius solution to this problem
>
> that plagues anyone who tries internally routing cables continuously
>
> from the tubes through the BB shell. Dale mentioned that the look of
>
> the laser was the feature that was being recognized and "appreciated"
>
> by people at the time. My feeling is you people only see the visual
>
> way too much and overlook the basic elements of design and function in
>
> the process. I'm suggesting a more enlightened perspective as an
>
> alternative. If the piece passes the design and function part first,
>
> then look at the visual/perceived appearance for innovation and
>
> styling. Cinelli most definitely does not win the award for solving
>
> this problem.
>
>
> Taking a break to make a float in a frosty glass from the freezer,
>
> using pineapple soda and apricot-mango sherbet. Yummy!! Yes, it been a
>
> bit warm here the past few days, but here in California we know how to
>
> deal with it, yessir! This is so good I may take a bath in this stuff.
>
> Since I don't have a Laser in front of me right now I'm sure there are
>
> a number of things I don't remember about what other basic
>
> framebuilding shortcomings the design has. But they added a lot of
>
> metal and brass that does little for aerodynamics but didn't reinforce
>
> the thin head tube where the headset presses in, they tend to stretch.
>
> As I recall there are or can be some "issues" with the seat post
>
> binder also. One of the most basic things one has to do at least a
>
> decent job of for the bike to even be ridable. Fortunately for
>
> everyone I don't have one to look at, so we can spare everyone the
>
> continuing rant.
>
> My point here is that Awarding a functional object cult status based
>
> on it's "innovative looks" (and I wouldn't be at all surprised if
>
> someone else did it first, if not better first) doesn't work for me.
>
> Obviously I see a different bike when I look at a Laser than most
>
> people see. But that's part of what's so wonderful about this list.
>
> Many points of view are presented. You choose what works for you. I
>
> would not and do not think less of anyone who likes, appreciates, or
>
> owns a Laser. Those who know me know that is 100% true. But on the
>
> other hand, I felt it was necessary to explain further why my opinion
>
> was stated in my earlier post. The MOMA is a good place for the Laser.
>
> There, people who don't know a lot about bikes can see it and go "WOW,
>
> check out THAT bike!" That's IS a work of art. It is a bicycle also,
>
> but not a very good one IMHO. I prefer a really great bicycle that
>
> just happens to be a work of art also. But that's just me.
>
> Thanks for listening. I think I'll go take a float in the bath. ;-)
>
> Brian Baylis
>
> La Mesa, CA
>
>
>
>
> -- Bianca Pratorius <biankita@comcast.net> wrote:
> After Brian Baylis' review of the Cinelli, I can see why the bike
>
> ended
>
> up in the MOMA. It is a beautiful piece of art from a visual point of
>
> view. The best art however is like the best engineering: Form follows
>
> function. If the Cinelli Laser is a heavy impractical piece then it
>
> does not appeal to the sportsman in all of us. It's a show dog, not a
>
> hunter. It's a poseur. It's an all visual flow and no go item that
>
> should be hung on the wall and left to those who love to ooh and ahh
>
> and not those who love to sweat. Body filler or not, it's not a
>
> classical lightweight in that its form hinders the melding of body and
>
> machine. I sold my plastic Modolo brake levers at a pretty penny on
>
> Ebay last year. They seemed so delicate that I felt I could barely put
>
> them in the box without breaking them. I was so glad that the
>
> purchaser
>
> of those and the matching flexy Modolo shift levers said they were
>
> going in a show case and not on a bike. They belonged in the show
>
> aisle
>
> and not the pace line. The levers were so bendy that when they came
>
> off
>
> the bike I had them on, the bike seemed to let out a sigh of relief...
>
> the same sigh I let out when I shipped them off.
>
> Garth Libre in Miami Fl USA