[CR]Re: [Frame] Major Announcement from San Diego, CA

Example: Framebuilders:Brian Baylis
From: <"brianbaylis@juno.com">
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 13:32:30 GMT
To: llewellynbikes@powerup.com.au
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]Re: [Frame] Major Announcement from San Diego, CA


I oppose no one. What I oppose is not seperating the craft of

framebuilding from the business of framebuilding. No one has to define

which is which or who does what, the finished product is what defines

what it is. Our differences are philosophical. There will always be

the two sides of this issue no matter what business, industry, or

craft. How business advertize and promote themselves follows basic

patterns throughout the world. Personally, I believe small individual

framebuilders should avoid using major corporate (or poliical

campaign) type promotional methods. I believe each piece should speak

for itself and be catagorized by how it's made. Some builders fit into

both catagories at once, you are one of them. Do you consider your

racing type bikes as the same thing as your 265 hour masterpieces? I

think not. I wouldn't either. I don't offer "racing type bikes"

anymore, so I only occupy one catagory. If I did make such a bike it

would be less money and less time. What seperates the two; it's

obviously the time, and what one does with the time. The rest of the

explaination is forthcoming, but you see where I'm heading. I'm not

saying anything new.

I too am looking forward to talking with you at the Cirque. I was

really trying hard not to go this year because this is not a good time

for me on account of all that is going on here. But when I heard you

were coming, I decided I must go so we can talk face to face. Perhaps

we can come to a real understanding of where each one of us is coming

from. For certain to don't understand what I'm really like, and the

internet just isn't working between us.

Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA

-- "Darrell McCulloch" wrote:

Gladdies and Brian, I do sincerely wish Brian and all involved in the

Co-Op favourable tailwinds and much more contentment in the new enterprise. However Brian, as I read down towards the end of your announcement I perceive that there is a change in the message being conveyed. As you have made a public announcement which reads more as an

indictment, I think it is correct and proper that you elucidate on the following.

"We hope to turn the tide towards integrity in advertising and

promotions of one's work, for the benifit and sake of the public who is thirsty for straightforward useful information about a craft that has way too much "mystery" for the sake of keeping the public confused about what is real about what frames and framebuilding is really all about at this level." Whose "integrity" are you speaking of? Where/what is the "mystery" you speak of? Who is "keeping the public confused" and how?

"and not mislead the public in order to make the almighty buck." Which independent builder is doing this?

"We shall exist for the benifit of all, not just a special few." In this context does the words "We shall" refers to you and your co

ops? Who are the special few you refer to? Who are the ones who currently perceive that think they exist for the "special few"

Brian, many of us are what I call in jest "frame building tragics" who

share hundreds and hundreds of photos of our metal work in progress on this

list and at Neil's place. http://www.frameforum.net/forum2/index.php act=Search&nav=lv&CODE=show&searchid=2cf0279a67c4869ff12cf5048d1 8d879&s earch_in=topics&result_type=topics&lastdate=0 http://www.frameforum.net/forum2/index.php?showtopic=3771&hl= so I have no idea what you speak of when referring to "mysteries".

I and perhaps others would like to see more pictures of your actual

metal work as it is in progress in your workshop. Maybe that may ease the "mystery" you speak of?

Brian, I would think you have responsibilities, personally and

financially to the fellow good people who have commitments in this Co-Op to ensure

it prospers. I think your announcement in this manner does not seem to be done in

good faith or constructive for you or the Co-Op members as it is a negative indictment to other builders.

I look forward to meeting you soon at Cirque.

Cheers Dazza

----- Original Message -----

From: <brianbaylis@juno.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>; <Framebuilders@phred.org> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 11:50 PM Subject: [Frame] Major Announcement from San Diego, CA

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, and cute fuzzy animals,

I am both pleased and excited to announce to everyone that the newly formed co-op of San Diego based framebuilders and painters has become a reality. Within a few short weeks the paint and restoration shop will be operational and is now ready to consider selected paint and restoration work. There will be a slightly longer lead time during the early stages for completing work due to the remaining orgornizational tasks, but our focus and intent is to keep the quality of the work at the top of world class workmanship and the turn around time reasonable, considering the relative complexity of the job. We will be specializing in certain types of restoration (along the lines of my Vintage Cycle Studios work) and also will offer OEM paintwork to framebuilders under certain circumstances. Some will be regular accounts and others may prefer to send only special jobs to us based on special needs or specific customer requests. We aim to become recognized as the best that the paint and restoration business has to offer within our speciality.

Our pool of knowledge and available talents will hopefully set the standards for the industry. Each of the members will also be feeding and learning from the others, causing the growth and progress of each of our members to expand exponentially at an alarming rate. Not since the days of the San Marcos co-op (housing Kirkbride/Allen, Moulton, Tesch, Baylis, cycleart, and Confente had he not passed away) has there been such potential within a small group of bicycle artists and craftsmen. Each of us will be functioning as seperate business (except Carlos and I will run the paint business), but at the same time each will be helping the others gain resources, knowlege, and experience.

We will also be setting up a full machine shop where we can all learn machining for toolmaking, fixturemaking, prototyping, and framebuilding. This is very exciting for all of us and again will expand our horizions and abilities to produce world class bicycles and bike related products.

Eventually we will have space for guests to come and learn with us on a short term basis and probably teach advanced framebuilding skills and design, in addition to painting. Our first guest resident will be Jeff Lyon from OR who is going to spend 2 months with us this summer. We will be helping local aspiring framebuilders for a while and then expand to guests and students from other parts of the country. Jeff is a long time friend and had planned on this even before we got this thing rolling, so he goes first.

As a restoration company, Carlos Martell (Sir Maldoror) will be the director and manager of the co-op and the paint business. I will be helping and supporting as I focus on my own framebuilding duties and special product developments in my new workshop, once it is completed in late 2007 or early 2008. We are negotiating with new platers in an effort to keep chrome prices under control, but we still have a more than 20 year relationship with our local plater. A graphics department will be established once we get underway to provide restoration decals in certain situations. We plan to keep abreast of the latest trends in materials and finishing concepts in order to offer the most complete services in the business. Only the best frame repair standards will be used in our shop to insure that the collectables recieve the best care available anywhere on the planet.

Stay tuned for future announcements as to contact information and prices. Website forthcomming. For those who are attending the Cirque du Cyclisme in Greensboro, NC next month, we will have a special preview of what the future holds in the resortation business and the development of new artists and craftsmen in the custom frame business. There is certainly strength in numbers, and we shall prove it in due time. I'm too excited for words.

Current members of the co-op are Carlos Martell/ Maldoror Cycles (winner of "Best New Framebuilder" at NAHBS 2007, Chuck Slesinger of Saldilah(sp?, sorry I don't know all the proper spellings for everything just yet), winner of "Best Track Bike" at NAHBS 2006, Richie Ditta, future winner of Best New Framebuilder ;-) (2008?) and a very fine new builder headed for stardom, David Taitano Jr., yet to begin but possesing enough potential to get in on the ground floor of this group, and myself, an old dog who will certainly be learning some new tricks.

I hope at least some of you are as excited as I am about the potential of this organization. In addition to our work, we also intend to set the standard as a group who will be a beacon of upfront, truthful information regarding information relevent to painting and the art and craft of framebuilding. People everyone can count on to avoid heavy marketing campaigns and provide facts, live up to the standards we set, and not mislead the public in order to make the almighty buck. The industry, as small and insignificant as it is in the grand scheme of things, is frought with far too much of it these days. We hope to turn the tide towards integrity in advertising and promotions of one's work, for the benifit and sake of the public who is thirsty for straightforward useful information about a craft that has way too much "mystery" for the sake of keeping the public confused about what is real about what frames and framebuilding is really all about at this level. The builders also need this beacon they can depend on to help them grow and blossom.

Thank you all for reading this far. Let us all benifit and prosper in accordance with the actual merits of what we all seek to do. We shall exist for the benifit of all, not just a special few.

Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA