I am really not that sure about the Altenburger dating. I found reference on the net for a 62 bike having a complete Altenburger Gruppo. No pictures though. So that might be a clue. I have hardly ever seen this parts here in germany which may have led to the conclusion they are earlier. I see the brakes a lot on all sorts of old bikes but never the shifters and derailleurs. Same goes for the hubs - i have never seen them and i check out every old bike I pass. French hubs and derailleurs are a lot more common. Someone once told me the French in the day were what the Japanese were later (Shimano) - selling good parts for reasonable prices whereas italian parts like campy were a lot more expensive then. Dale - you should definitely add this kind of stuff to the CR site.
Regards
Michael Schmid
Oberammergau
Germany
Tel.: +49 8821 798790
Fax.:+49 8821 798791
mail: <mailto:schmid@zunterer.com> schmid@zunterer.com
http://www.zunterer.com http://www.zunterer.com/
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: oroboyz@aol.com [mailto:oroboyz@aol.com] Gesendet: Montag, 21. Mai 2007 17:40 An: schmidi@gaponline.de; paul@wilsondesigns.net; kwallace@cableone.net; Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Betreff: Re: [CR]Very interesting 50's Cinelli and time lines
<< The dating is really difficult but the Altenburger gruppo says early fifties. >>
Interesting...
I do not recall seeing advertisements in magazines that would established the time frame for these Altenburger components. Does anyone have that? Scans available?
I would like to add stuff like that to the CR web site.
Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA http://www.classicrendezvous.com
-----Original Message----- From: schmidi@gaponline.de To: paul@wilsondesigns.net; kwallace@cableone.net; Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:03 AM Subject: AW: [CR]Very interesting 50's Cinelli and time lines
This is one of the coolest Cinellis I have seen so far. As far as my
judgement goes it should be a B-Model which is indicated by the flat
fork-crown. The dating is really difficult but the Altenburger gruppo
says early fifties. My B-model has the older lugs (pointed) but no oil
port hole and simplex dropouts. So now I am completely confused about
the age. I just admired the hubs with the unique altenburger logo cut
into the flanges. Red anodising seems to be their trademark. Datewise it
just tells us - You can not date them correctly, Cinelli used whatever
was around. I still hope a listmember will get it so we can see some
more and better pictures.
Regards
Michael Schmid
Germany
Oberammergau
Tel.: +49 8821 798790
Fax.:+49 8821 798791
mail: schmid@zunterer.com <javascript:parent.ComposeTo(>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org <javascript:parent.ComposeTo(>
[mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org <javascript:parent.ComposeTo(> ] Im Auftrag von Dr. Paul
J.Wilson
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Mai 2007 16:15
An: Ken Wallace; CR
Betreff: [CR]Very interesting 50's Cinelli and time lines
Hi Ken, Steven & CR,
I've come to realize that lots of this Cinelli history cannot always
be traced to an exact time line. Nonetheless, some history can be
traced, and I am not knowledgeable enough to know which is which. And
so, the Cinelli we talk about here has no pointed head lugs, yet
alleges that it is a 50's bike. About what time line did pointed head
lugs occur.?
Were non-pointed head lugs available to be used on 50's frames?
Also about what time line did drilling of fork stiffeners and lugs
begin?
Finally, the fork of this Cinelli is not sloping, what are time lines
concerning Cinelli fork designs?
Comments from all appreciated.
Paul J. Wilson
Cell (408) 395-2020, Temecula, California>>(951) 587-3632,
San Jose, California 95124>>(408) 377-1710,
At 5:54 AM -0700 5-21-07, Ken Wallace wrote:
>It's nearly identical to my silver 1964 Cinelli, except mine does
>not have the colored Altenburger components and has Sheffield pedals.
>
>Ken Wallace, Proprietor
>Bisbee Bicycle Brothel
>63-B Brewery Ave.
>PO Box 1194
>Bisbee, AZ 85603
>USA
>(520) 236-4855 (cell)
>kwallace@cableone.net <javascript:parent.ComposeTo(> (email)
>www.bisbeebicyclebrothel.com
>
>
>
>
>
>On May 20, 2007, at 9:35 PM, The Maaslands wrote:
>
>>For those of you who have become fixated with Cinelli and believe that
>>you have understood something about serial numbers or other build
>>characteristics that can assure a particular build date or period, I
>>believe this bike will blow all of your preconceptions away:
>>http://ebay.com/<blah>
>>ted
>>_W0QQitemZ260120590590
>>
>>On this Cinelli, which I believe to be a variant of the 'B' it becomes
>>absolutely certain that Cinelli did not build 'catalog' stock bikes,
>>but rather was amenable to build everything to order. So you might as
>>well stop trying to use today's logic to second guess the year of
>>production of a given frame by serial number, or even build specifics.
>>With less than 1000 frames being built in any given year, Cinelli
>>would have been able to build every bike differently.
>>
>>By the way, I am presently the high bidder on this bike but expect to
>>quickly be outbid.
>>
>>Steven Maasland
>>Moorestown, NJ
>>USA
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
--
Paul J. Wilson
Cell (408) 395-2020, Temecula, California>>(951) 587-3632,
San Jose, California 95124>>(408) 377-1710,
Fax: (408) 377-1710 After prompting by "outgoing message",
press *51, and then hit your "send fax" button.
email: paul@wilsondesigns.net <javascript:parent.ComposeTo(>
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