Jerry,
Good explanation. There is a lot more to it also. The thinking and
desicions differ between those whose primary aim is to run
a "traditionally" profitable business, and those who do it primarily
as a lobor of love, so to speak. Those who do it for other than
maximum profit potential do not often sell their work cheap; but they
spend more time for less money in return (in dollars per hour) than
those with a business bent. I speak from experience. My work is
expensive, but I make relatively little as an hourly wage compared to
almost everyone. Comes with the territory.
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
I think what Doug is saying is that a shop with a good retail trade,
refinishing business, etc. may be able to "subsidize" the frame
building a bit. So they can then take more time and care with the
framebuilding than would be justified by the frame price. Of course,
in theory, one can just charge more for the frames, but in the real
world, there is only so much the customer will pay and it seems that
in UK the customers will often not pay as much as in the US. There
have been lots of great products produced at a loss because the
manufacturers had other sources of profit to subsidize then. Hybrid
automobiles, at least when they were first introduced, were an
excellent example. In the world of classic bicycles, it is quite
possible that two pioneering bikes (whether the trends they started
were good or bad) the Teledyne Titan and the Exxon Graftek, never made
any money. Both were produced or marketed by huge companies for which
they were an insignificant part of overall opeartions. So they could be produced as R&D, or public
relations regardless of whether they made or lost money. Eventually,
most products must make money or their producers will ultimately tire
of subsidizing them. But many great products are produced for years
at a loss before this happens. The so-called "laws" of capitalism are
really no such thing. They are forces, and admittedly powerful ones,
which do shape human behavior. But fortunately, human behavior is
more complex than that. People can and do act counter to the profit
motive to produce objects at a loss because they find those objects
beautiful or important or visionary.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX
Nick Zatezalo <nickzz@mindspring.com> wrote: Doug Wrote:
Ellis Briggs also painted frames on their premises so I was very
fortunate to have learned those procedures there as well. I think both of those places made better frames than most others partly because their shops
were not financially dependent on building alone but were just part of a
bigger operation. That allowed them to take time to finish them they way they wanted rather than turn out the numbers to make a profit.
Doug Fattic - getting closer to some of the mysteries of framebuilding
in Niles, Michigan
How does making a profit hinder an artisan from producing quality
work?
I have heard this mentioned from several other sources and have a
difficult time comprehending this thought process.
If it was in fact true; their best work would be free.
Nick Zatezalo
Atlanta,Ga.USA