> Brian: In some sense your concerns regarding the movement of
\r?\n> collectable bikes into private collections ( especially foreign
\r?\n> collections) is quite legitimate. Any collectable that moves
\r?\n> into a private collection is not necessarily going to be
\r?\n> appreciated directly by other collectors. That's why
\r?\n> exhibitions, etc. are such a good thing. I thought (not
\r?\n> everybody agrees) that a guide would also be helpful to form a
\r?\n> reference for bikes that might not be seen so soon again, if at
\r?\n> all. Some collectors objected to the inclusion of price in such
\r?\n> a guide.
\r?\n> But, in my opinion, concerns regarding auctions and movement of
\r?\n> collectables, including vintage bikes, probably are slightly
\r?\n> misplaced. For all I can see, auctions, eBay auctions in
\r?\n> particular, are probably causing a movement of European bikes
\r?\n> into the USA! Some countries prohibit objects they regard as
\r?\n> patrimony from being sent out of their country. I for one would
\r?\n> hate to see Italy adopt such a policy toward their vintage bikes!
\r?\n> I think the net effect of auctions is to distribute objects into
\r?\n> the hands of new collectors and, sometimes, to other countries.
\r?\n> A guide to vintage steel bikes would help everyone and in many ways.
\r?\n> George Hollenberg MD
\r?\n> Westport, CT, USA
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> ----- Original Message -----
\r?\n> From: "brianbaylis@juno.com"
\r?\n> Date: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:55 am
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: When is a restoration not a restoration?
\r?\n> To: sirkevinwulf@ozemail.com.au
\r?\n> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n>
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Jeff,
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Sorry for my general statement. I was referring to the
\r?\n> > situations in
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > the past when certain things, French classic bikes in
\r?\n> > particular, were
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > going to Japanese bidders who were offering REALLY high bids
\r?\n> for
\r?\n> > that
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > sort of thing. The effect of that was that the eBay prices on
\r?\n> > the
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > stuff got to be astronomical. In addition to that, once the
\r?\n> > bikes and
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > parts went to Japan, us here in the states where the stuff was
\r?\n> > being
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > auctioned, and where much of it spent it's service life, would
\r?\n> > not be
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > seen by the collectors here at the shows and rides ever again.
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > It seems that maybe that condition has lessened in recent
\r?\n> years;
\r?\n> > but I
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > don't follow eBay very much. On account of eBay, many of the
\r?\n> > people
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > have become familiar with others in the hobby and have taken
\r?\n> up
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > dealing amongst themselves these days.
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > No offense meant to any foreign country; not even Japan. I
\r?\n> would
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > assume any owner interested in buying the stuff would give the
\r?\n> > objects
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > a good home. But once the stuff leaves, it rarely comes back
\r?\n> to
\r?\n> > the
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > States and we hardly never see the stuff in the collections.
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Brian Baylis
\r?\n> > La Mesa, CA
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > -- Jeff wrote:
\r?\n> > Brian,
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > I agree with almost everything you say. "The "opinions" vary
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > widely
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > amongst all of us" - couldn't agree more! Most times I see a
\r?\n> CR
\r?\n> > post
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > talking about the high price an item got on eBay, I'm thinking
\r?\n> > "Gee,
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > that
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > doesn't sound too outrageous". There's a downside to all this
\r?\n> > sun and
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > surf
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > and whatnot in Australia..... Anyway, I'm not too sure about
\r?\n> > this
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > though:
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > "Finding the right home for the bike is more important to the
\r?\n> > people
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > who
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > really care about these bikes. If the highest bidder gets the
\r?\n> > stuff,
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > much
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > of the important bikes and parts will leave the US forever".
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Many/most of the bikes owned by CR members were built in
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > countries
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > other than the US. Many Italians, Brits, French and even
\r?\n> Aussies
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > might
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > have a thing or two to say about how these bikes ended up in
\r?\n> the
\r?\n> > US in
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > the
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > first place (highest bidders??). Are we foreigners incapable
\r?\n> of
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > providing
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > a good home? Oh well, perhaps I am just hoping that more nice
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > bikes/parts
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > are to be found in Australia at some point!!
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Wishing I could go to Cirque....
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Best,
\r?\n> > Jeff
\r?\n> > Melb, Australia
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > > Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 13:19:52 GMT
\r?\n> > > From: "brianbaylis@juno.com"
\r?\n> > > To: romeug@comcast.net
\r?\n> > > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n> > > Cc: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
\r?\n> > > Subject: Re: [CR]When is a restoration not a restoration?
\r?\n> > > Message-ID: <20070607.061952.18731.0@webmail08.lax.untd.com>
\r?\n> > > Content-Type: text/plain
\r?\n> > > MIME-Version: 1.0
\r?\n> > > Precedence: list
\r?\n> > > Message: 1
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > Gabriel,
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > I'm with you. Just to begin with, the logistics of getting people
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > together to communicate on the issues, of which there will be
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > thousands, and the opinions of each person, are already next to
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > impossible. The "opinions" vary widely amongst all of us.
\r?\n> Who
\r?\n> > is
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > going
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > to "win" the debates? The values, once established, will be
\r?\n> obsolete> >
\r?\n> > > next week.
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > I have way more than enough work to do for the rest of my life.
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > Honestly, I need time for my other hobbies of playing drums
\r?\n> in surf
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > and oldies bands, making handmade knives, and making gas
\r?\n> > powered air
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > guns. Now I have a 1957 Lambretta to restore; and I can
\r?\n> > already tell
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > this won't be the last one.
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > I'm not certain the next generation will have the same
\r?\n> appreciation> >
\r?\n> > > that we have for these bikes. Until "we" came along, most of
\r?\n> > the
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > stuff
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > was tossed in the landfill or abused to death by the
\r?\n> original
\r?\n> > owners,>
\r?\n> > > who used them for what they were meant for. The enjoyment of
\r?\n> riding> >
\r?\n> > > them. It's our generation who sort of cares because they are
\r?\n> > the
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > bikes
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > that we either owned or wanted to own when we were younger.
\r?\n> I
\r?\n> > sort of
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > doubt that there will be too many classic bikes collectors
\r?\n> in
\r?\n> > 50
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > years.
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > Sure, my knowledge and that of many others here is of
\r?\n> > importance to
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > us. And would be important to others in the future as well.
\r?\n> > But we
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > seem to be doing fine just the way we are. Furthermore, many
\r?\n> > of us
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > sell or trade stuff amongst ourselves and the money involved
\r?\n> > is not
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > the primary issue. Finding the right home for the bike is more
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > important to the people who really care about these bikes.
\r?\n> If the
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > highest bidder gets the stuff, much of the important bikes
\r?\n> and parts
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > will leave the US forever. Parting out bikes will be the most
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > profitable way to off an exotic piece; and no one in their
\r?\n> > right mind
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > would do that for the money. And yet it happens still; by
\r?\n> > people who
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > collect bikes for profit. Forget profit and respect the surviving
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > bikes, give them good homes, and ride them whenever possible.
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > I suspect you (George) will become comfortable with the
\r?\n> system
\r?\n> > the
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > way
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > it is as time goes on. Encouraging the value study will do
\r?\n> > harm to
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > the
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > hobby in my opinion, just as Gabriel has mentioned. Let it
\r?\n> be.
\r?\n> > Save
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > us
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > all a lot of work and arguing. Ride and enjoy the bikes for
\r?\n> > what they
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > are.
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > Brian Baylis
\r?\n> > > La Mesa, CA
\r?\n> > > Still looking for the valve caps with the matching serial
\r?\n> > numbers to
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > complete my 1968 Ollie Ozone bike. I can not rest until I
\r?\n> find
\r?\n> > ALL
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > the
\r?\n> > >
\r?\n> > > correct original parts. ;-)