Fwd: [CR]Type 2 Campagnolo Super Record rear derailleur date


To: List CR <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <D89827B5-211B-46AA-9BE0-1901E0E8B26A@socal.rr.com>
From: John Waner <x76911s@socal.rr.com>
Subject: Fwd: [CR]Type 2 Campagnolo Super Record rear derailleur date
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:07:05 -0700


Begin forwarded message:
> From: John Waner <x76911s@socal.rr.com>
> Date: July 4, 2007 6:22:25 PM PDT
> To: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Type 2 Campagnolo Super Record rear derailleur date
>
> I have a type 1 sr derailleur with a date stamp of 72, I have no
> way of knowing whether it was built in 1972 or, as has been
> speculated the top part was made in 1972, and the derailleur was
> assembled at a later date. I am certainly not an expert on campy
> dating but it seems that there are quite a few items that appear
> before they "should". I have a italian built masi that is dated 1
> 73, and I was assured by alberto that the date is correct, it has
> the short campy drop-outs, some tried to tell me the bike had to be
> a 1975 or even later.
>
> When I got the 72 sr derl I was quite jazzed about it , until Chuck
> proposed his dating theory, that kind of burst the bubble!
> John Waner
> Huntington Beach, CA
>
> On Jul 4, 2007, at 4:29 PM, Chuck Schmidt wrote:
>
>> So what's your opinion John? Was the "PAT. 72" stamped Type 1
>> Super Record rear derailleur Karen saw on eBay assembled in the
>> factory in 1972 or was it assembled in the factory 1973 with a '72
>> top piece?
>>
>> Chuck Schmidt
>> South Pasadena, CA USA
>>
>>
>> On Jul 4, 2007, at 3:24 PM, John Barron wrote:
>>
>>> I have personally seen (and/or owned) Type 1 Campag Super Record
>>> rear ders
>>> dated as early as 1973 and as late as 1984! On each one of these,
>>> I had
>>> absolutely no question that it was factory and original. I have
>>> always
>>> thought that the earliest Super Record components came on the
>>> scene in 1973,
>>> because I have never seen a rear der dated earlier than 1973.
>>>
>>> I was particularly surprised when I saw (and bought) one each of
>>> 1983 and
>>> 1984 type 1 SR rears in perfect, NOS condition with boxes. I
>>> acquired these
>>> at a swap meet in Tokyo. Neither one had the CPSC black plastic
>>> thing on the
>>> adjuster screws.
>>>
>>> John Barron
>>> Minneapolis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:29:29 -0400
>>>
>>> From: "krawls" <krawls@visuallink.com>
>>>
>>> Not too long ago there was a 1972 Type 1 Super Record derailleur
>>> on ebay. I
>>> have seen both Type 1 and Type 2 in 1978 and one Type 1 1979.
>>>
>>> Karen Rawls
>>> Winchester VA USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> from Chuck Schmidt chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
>>> to CR RENDEZVOUS classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>> date Jul 4, 2007 4:43 PM
>>> subject [CR]Type 2 Campagnolo Super Record rear
>>> derailleur date
>>>
>>> What follows is all idle conjecture on my part so take it for
>>> what it is
>>> worth...
>>>
>>> I'm guessing that the top part of the derailleur that is dated,
>>> the one
>>> that's black anodized and IDENTICAL on both the Type 1 Super Record
>>> derailleur (similar to Nuovo Record) and the later Type 2
>>> (modernized with
>>> script logo, no checkering texture, different pulley cage), might
>>> not
>>> EXACTLY reflect the year of manufacture in ALL cases (most, but
>>> not all).
>>>
>>> That part would be cast, stamped with the date and then anodized
>>> and put in
>>> the parts bin. It is not unimaginable that a worker would then
>>> assemble a
>>> Type 2 Super Record derailleur with an older dated top piece
>>> still in the
>>> bin.
>>>
>>> There are more than a few Type 1 and Type 2 derailleurs using the
>>> "PAT. 77"
>>> top piece, which could indicate that 1977 is the intro date for
>>> the Type 2,
>>> but it could also mean that the Type 2 was assembled in 1978 with
>>> the "PAT.
>>> 77" top.
>>>
>>> The year 1978 was a year of lots of changes in the Super Record
>>> product
>>> line: from the Timeline...
>>>
>>> 1978 - C.P.S.C. (Consumer Product Safety Commission) mandates
>>> changes to
>>> NR/SR. Included are a front derailleur lip, 2.5 mm increase in
>>> spacing
>>> between crank spider and arm to clear the front derailleur lip with
>>> corresponding increase in bottom bracket axle length, a curved
>>> quick release
>>> lever and ball-end added to quick release conical adjuster, dome-
>>> shape added
>>> to quick release cam lever on brake calipers, plastic covering
>>> added to the
>>> wheel guides on the brake shoes, and plastic safety-shields added
>>> to rear
>>> derailleur screws. The word "Patent" is changed to "Brev." on the
>>> chainring,
>>> chainring bolts and crank dust cap. Tullio Campagnolo is bestowed
>>> with the
>>> Stella D'Oro (Golden Star) award by the C.O.N.I. (Italian
>>> National Olympic
>>> organization) for his contributions to sport.
>>>
>>> 1978 - Catalog #17a Supplement is printed for the year-end trade
>>> shows.
>>>
>>> Included are a revised Super Record derailleur with script logo and
>>> different cage geometry (28 tooth capacity), single bolt Nuovo
>>> Super Record
>>> seat post, Record front derailleur with four holes in cage (later
>>> to be
>>> three holes), straight-band clamp (later to revert to traditional
>>> pointed-band clamp), short Nuovo Record dropouts without eyelets
>>> (drilled
>>> and tapped for chain holder), chain holder
>>>
>>> (Portacatena) with accompanying control lever and trigger, and
>>> fixing shoe
>>> plate for pedals. Gran Sport front derailleur (Record-style plain
>>> cage with
>>> lip stamped with Globe logo), Gran Sport crank (flat bottom
>>> fluting, 170mm
>>> length), Gran Sport pedal (stamped steel races and engraved "Gran
>>> Sport" on
>>> barrel), Gran Sport brakeset (different adjuster and engraved
>>> "Gran Sport"
>>> on caliper; black brake hoods with Globe logo). Nuovo Valentino
>>> front
>>> derailleur (flat arms, Record- style plain cage with lip, stamped
>>> with
>>> Winged QR logo).
>>>
>>> I remember the Type 2 being available in 1979 (Bikcology catalog
>>> "New for
>>> '79") and I believe a "PAT. 76" Type 2 Super Record rear
>>> derailleur was
>>> assembled from earlier parts by the factory and was not actually
>>> made
>>> (assembled) in 1976.
>>>
>>> Anyone else have thoughts?
>>>
>>> Chuck Schmidt
>>> South Pasadena, CA USA
>>> http://www.velo-retro.com (reprints, t-shirts & timelines)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 4, 2007, at 4:40 AM, Hilary Stone wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> There's plenty else of interest amongst the frames including a
>>>> fairly
>>>
>>>> Stallard but the highlight for me amongst the parts is a Campagnolo
>>>
>>>> Super Record type 2 rear gear dated 1976... We have seen and
>>>> heard of
>>>
>>>> type 1 SR rear gears from 1977 and 1978 and a type 2 from 1977
>>>> but a
>>>
>>>> type 2 as early as 1976 is not something even I thought existed. It
>>>
>>>> does show that Campag were producing both types of SR rear gear for
>>>
>>>> quite a considerable period of time. If they did that for the SR
>>>> rear
>>>
>>>> gear can we ever really establish a sequential timeline for any
>>>> Campy
>>>
>>>> component with any certainty?