Re: [CR]KOF Classic JP Weigle for sale on ebay

(Example: Framebuilding:Technology)

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Tom Dalton" <>
Subject: Re: [CR]KOF Classic JP Weigle for sale on ebay
To:,,, Classic Rendezvous <>
In-Reply-To: <> wrote: Personally if Peter Weigle says it is a brocolli I would say it is on topic and probably look for a close up photo to check out the lugs. :-)

If Peter made a sterling silver tea service or a nice piece of jewelry I would be very interested to see detailed photos, and these photos would be equally on-topic as photos of an MTB. To me, they'd be more interesting because they would reflect a great bike builder's metalworking skills in an entirely different realm, as opposed to reflecting his efforts in building the type of bike that interests me least. But that's just me.

I really wish you guys might consider taking a different approach with Chuck. For one, you could ignore him. We all, including Chuck himself, know he's not the list master, and we all, including Chuck himself, know that we don't have to do what he asks. We know, yes, including Chuck himself, that Chuck's requests and suggestions are just that, requests and suggestions. So, why not either ignore him, or say, "gee Chuck, you're right, it is an MTB, but it was built by a KOF, and it's lovely, and J.P. is a member, and unless Dale says otherwise we're going to talk about this off-topic bike. Nooooo, instead we get lame irrational rationalizations as to why this bike that is unequivocally an MTB is actually on-topic on a list specifically excludes MTBs. Or, we get downright bizarre rationalizations that are equivalent to saying that frog with its legs cut off is a snake.

It was just a few weeks ago that we went through this same nonsense on the matter of someone using the list as a customer service center. Everyone gave arguments as to why Chuck was wrong, when clearly he wasn't. Again, we could have ignored him, or just admitted that, strictly speaking, he was correct, but that we supported making an exception to list rules unless Dale said otherwise.

Tom Dalton Bethlehem PA USA wrote: Personally if Peter Weigle says it is a brocolli I would say it is on topic and probably look for a close up photo to check out the lugs. :-)

Love you guys you are all totally funny!

Guy Apple Palo Alto NorCal Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message----- From: Tom Dalton

Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:52:18,Classic Rendezvous Subject: [CR]KOF Classic JP Weigle for sale on ebay

Kurt Sperry wrote:

To my eyes, that is now a touring bike. If it sported almost identical 650Bs and drop bars, it'd be nearly unambiguous. And almost the exact same bike.

Gray area at least.

Kurt Sperry Bellingham WA USA

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but saying that this is now a touring bike is like saying a road racing bike fitted with a fixed gear and divested of its brakes is now a track bike. That would not be a tack bike, it would be a road bike with tack parts (and almost as uninteresting as this bike, to me). Similarly, the bike in question is, at best, an MTB with some touring parts, such as racks and smooth rubber. The difference between these two examples is that in the first example the original bike was on-topic while in the second example the original bike is off-topic.

Perhaps, as you said, if this bike had dropped bars and 650Bs it might fall under the heading of touring bike, though at that point you'd have a different frame to accomodate the different wheels, and thus it would be a different bike, and we'd be having a different conversation. So I'll agree that it might be a touring bike if it were a different bike, though I'd still wonder why it had such a high BB if it were intended for use or pavement and well-groomed trails. If this was because it was actually inteded to be rideable over logs and rocks on the trail, I'd have to argue that it would then be an MTB... which it is. Besides, that's what J.P. calls it.

Tom Dalton Bethlehem, PA USA

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