Norris,
Thanks for the informative message. Now here's my view of
the situation:
The great Italian bike builders also worked VERY HARD at
building their mystique. The great French builders
concentrated on building bicycles, to the point that guys who
built bikes for the winners of big stage races and many
Classics, remained relatively anonymous. Such was not the case
in Italy.
Plus, there is nothing coming from Italy to even compare to
the great French cyclo-touriste bikes. Nada. Niente. Rien.
Nothing!
But even the best of those never appeared on the front pages
of L'Equipe or Corriere dello Sport - at least not in recent
memory. So they didn't get the exposure to the ordinary public
that was given to the purely build racing bikes. Only the
connoiseurs/cognoscenti seemed to really understand. And
apparently, these days, most of the connoiseurs/cognoscenti
bidding on eBay seem to live in Japan...
It's sad but true...
Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
> OK...I know the answer already! They are worth just what
\r?\n> anyone is willi
\r?\n> ng to pay for them.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> I am admittedly one of those Doubting Thomases when it comes
\r?\n> to Herse fr
\r?\n> ames, not that I don't think there is some very good
\r?\n> craftsmanship in the f
\r?\n> rames, it's just that I can't get into the plot.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> A 1960 Herse frame has just been sold on Ebay for over 1000
\r?\n> dollars, or
\r?\n> was that Euros?.It was one of Alex's collection. At the time
\r?\n> that it
\r?\n> appeared on the auction, and there had been some reference on
\r?\n> the List to H
\r?\n> erse having built for Bobet, I emailed the List to say that I
\r?\n> had recently
\r?\n> acquired a very similar ,almost identical frame, even down to
\r?\n> the colour, t
\r?\n> hat it is claimed belonged to Jean Robic...who of course
\r?\n> raced alongside Bo
\r?\n> bet in the late 40s, and into the 50s. I wondered whether,
\r?\n> therefore, Herse
\r?\n> also built for Robic.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> The other principle difference between the Ebay Herse and my
\r?\n> frame is th
\r?\n> at mine does not have the (self-adhesive?) Herse decals on
\r?\n> the down tube. b
\r?\n> ut whereas the Herse had the cheapest type of pressed cable
\r?\n> stops known to
\r?\n> frame-builders, my frame has infinitely superior ones. My
\r?\n> frame has the sam
\r?\n> e lugs...but they are filed up better. ie no file marks
\r?\n> around the seat lug
\r?\n> and top-eyes. Whereas the Ebay Herse has "SPEEDY" tubing (
\r?\n> in over 50 year
\r?\n> s and an awful lot of French bikes , I have never come across
\r?\n> it) mine has
\r?\n> Reynolds tubes. And the gear-side rear Simplex drop-out
\r?\n> hasn't had a bit fi
\r?\n> led out of it..unlike the Ebay Herse.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> My frame, like the Herse, is elegant and nicely made, but it
\r?\n> is a far ni
\r?\n> cer frame than the Herse, from the detail point-of-view. ie
\r?\n> the rear gear c
\r?\n> able runs along the top-tube and down the
\r?\n> seat-stay...Interesting really as
\r?\n> Robic was an ace cyclo-cross rider..handlebar control etc
\r?\n> etc..and he didn
\r?\n> 't use cantilever brakes - hence no bosses on the forks and
\r?\n> stays.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Now..for the $64,000 question. If I had put my frame on
\r?\n> Ebay..extremely
\r?\n> elegant as it is..would it, without those self-adhesive RH
\r?\n> decal, have made
\r?\n> any more than say...125 dollars..on a good day? But....had
\r?\n> it had the adva
\r?\n> ntage of the RH stickers would it have soared over the 1000+
\r?\n> mark.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Someone commented that no French buyers rushed to bid for the
\r?\n> frame or w
\r?\n> as that for the pink Herse bike? I spend time in three
\r?\n> different parts of F
\r?\n> rance, quite a lot of it about one hour south of Lyon. Down
\r?\n> there the nativ
\r?\n> es think that Paris is on another planet..or at least they
\r?\n> hope it is..beca
\r?\n> use they don't like Parisians. It's a fact....Parisians are
\r?\n> generally much
\r?\n> disliked in France as they are deemed to represent the
\r?\n> political ruling cla
\r?\n> ss against the "paysans" the peasants ie anyone living
\r?\n> outside Paris
\r?\n> and therefore in the countryside.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Any serious cycling tourist living in the Lyon area would
\r?\n> have bought a
\r?\n> Longoni, or a Reyhand, or a Charrel...or a Routens..or any of
\r?\n> the super fra
\r?\n> mes made by custom builders just down the road in St Etienne.
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Recently I was shown what I consider to be the most elegant
\r?\n> French touri
\r?\n> ng bike I have ever seen...that is from a stand-point of the
\r?\n> detail on the
\r?\n> frame. It was a Charrel...and I think Alex has it now. So
\r?\n> come on Alex..sho
\r?\n> w it to us, so that we can appreciate that there were other
\r?\n> great builders
\r?\n> in France..and that Herse and Singer had their equals out
\r?\n> there among the "
\r?\n> paysans".
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Norris Lockley, Settle UK
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
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