Re: [CR]Masi Relisted

(Example: Events:Cirque du Cyclisme:2002)

From: <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Masi Relisted
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:43:07 +0000

Just to be clear, my bike is NOT 1979 production (D8003), it is NOT a track bike, and it DOES have the solo decal, with seemingly original patina. I do apologize for promoting rumors.

Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA

-------------- Original message --------------

> RE: Item number 170151417162



\r?\n> I too have written this seller for a detailed

\r?\n> photo of the bottom bracket and have not

\r?\n> received anything yet. But the seller does

\r?\n> seem to be making an effort to list the bike

\r?\n> honestly, so I don't think there's anything

\r?\n> shady going on.


\r?\n> As for it being a Masi, I thing there are

\r?\n> enough details in the current photos to

\r?\n> confirm that... fork crown, seat stay

\r?\n> bridge, lug windows, squared contours on

\r?\n> the rear dropout.


\r?\n> The solo decal on the downtube, the

\r?\n> front-facing palmares boxes on the seat

\r?\n> tube bands and the missing chainstay

\r?\n> decals are typical of 1979 production

\r?\n> so I think it's safe to assume that's

\r?\n> when the repaint and brazeons were done.

\r?\n> The only other time the solo decal was

\r?\n> used was on Carlsbad track bikes or by

\r?\n> special request (as on Jerry Ash's road

\r?\n> bike). The only thing I find curious is

\r?\n> that the shifter brazeons are too low.


\r?\n> >> For early US Masis, I understand

\r?\n> that serial numbers were not always shown

\r?\n> on the frame.


\r?\n> This is an old rumor that doesn't want

\r?\n> to die. It's just not true. I have photo

\r?\n> documentation of about 150 Carlsbad bikes

\r?\n> (about eight percent of total production)

\r?\n> and in my experience a Carlsbad

\r?\n> without a serial number is almost

\r?\n> unheard of. I've only seen maybe

\r?\n> two or three frames without some

\r?\n> sort of BB stamp and at least

\r?\n> one of those was a frame repair

\r?\n> where it probably had been filed

\r?\n> out. One was a NY Trade Show bike.

\r?\n> There are also two (Masi employee)

\r?\n> frames I'm aware of with the owner's

\r?\n> birth date in lieu of a serial number.

\r?\n> Then there is a small group of

\r?\n> subcontracted frames that have no

\r?\n> serial numbers, only a frame size

\r?\n> with no "M" prefix (I've seen five

\r?\n> of these so far). My guess is they

\r?\n> were built after Carlsbad closed and

\r?\n> before Rob's production at the Ranch

\r?\n> began.... they all have an unusual

\r?\n> fork bend that was obviously not

\r?\n> done on the Carlsbad jig and stamps

\r?\n> of a different size than Carlsbad

\r?\n> used.


\r?\n> Still too early to tell about this

\r?\n> black bike on eBay. I think the

\r?\n> owner should not have relisted the

\r?\n> bike before doing more research,

\r?\n> because in replacing the 73 date with

\r?\n> a 76 date, he's just substituting

\r?\n> one guess for another. And at this

\r?\n> point, I'm not even sure he went

\r?\n> the right way... judging by the fork

\r?\n> crown, there's a possibility the bike's

\r?\n> not even a Carlsbad, it could be

\r?\n> a '71 Italian.



\r?\n> Bob Hovey

\r?\n> Columbus GA USA








\r?\n> Ken Freeman Writes:


\r?\n> I have a 1980 Masi that has the same downtube decals. Masi having been what

\r?\n> it was, it's just hard to establish history in a definitive way. The best

\r?\n> assessment I've gotten, working with several 'Listers who are prime

\r?\n> Masi-istis, is that at times the painters left off the flag section, and for

\r?\n> some special geometries they were left off. Perhaps this is to distinguish

\r?\n> the special frame from the standard (i.e. geometry in accordance with the

\r?\n> model frames) items. The assessment is also that mine is actually a Masi

\r?\n> from California.


\r?\n> One frustration I have with this listing is that the pictures show very few

\r?\n> of the frame features that would allow me, at least, to see the signs of

\r?\n> Masi frame design and construction. Anyone who scammed or duplicated a set

\r?\n> of decals could perhaps have gussied-up a different frame as a faux-Masi.

\r?\n> The parts are certainly in the correct ballpark, but there were many

\r?\n> "full-Campy" bikes sold in those days.


\r?\n> For early US Masis, I understand that serial numbers were not always shown

\r?\n> on the frame.


\r?\n> The seller's tone seems genuine and I mean to cast no aspersions on him or

\r?\n> his bike, but it is hard for me to see what it really is. I wouldn't be

\r?\n> surprised if he finds it difficult to answer your questions, Masi history

\r?\n> being still as questionable as it is, despite the heroic efforts of some of

\r?\n> our prominent 'Listers.


\r?\n> Not my size, so I'm not a bidder.


\r?\n> Best regards,


\r?\n> Ken Freeman

\r?\n> Ann Arbor, MI USA



\r?\n> Steve Shaw Writes:


\r?\n> The? supposed 73 Masi is now relisted as a 76 with pretty much the same

\r?\n> description.? ( Item number 170151417162).? Has anyone seen a pic of the

\r?\n> bottom bracket or know the serial number of this bike.? I've asked the

\r?\n> seller but not received any info and I'm getting suspicious about it.? Why

\r?\n> does the sticker on the downtube say Masi instead of Masi Gran Criterium.?

\r?\n> Is this a California Masi or not?


\r?\n> Steve Shaw

\r?\n> Millbury, MA






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