From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
Reply-To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 58, Issue 85
Date:
25 Oct 2007 12:00:51 -0700
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>CR
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Looking for Liotto info. (brianbaylis@juno.com)
> 2. Rim Decal Removal (Otis)
> 3. Re: Interesting ebay auctions, one ending very soon (Fred Rednor)
> 4. re: ebay outing: interesting colnago (Charles Andrews)
> 5. Paris Sport markings (Dan Craven)
> 6. RE: Looking for Liotto info. (John Pergolizzi)
> 7. RE: Interesting ebay auctions, one ending very soon (Feeken, Dirk)
> 8. Pez L'Eroica story (sandranian)
> 9. Re: Paris Sport Markings
> 10. Re: Interesting ebay auctions, one ending very
soon
> (The Maaslands)
> 11. FS: NOS Nuovo Record Brakeset and Crank Arms (Jim Kadonaga)
> 12. Re: Gilding the lilly/now KOF Rivendell Bleriot (larry chang)
> 13. RE: Looking for Liotto info. (Mark Stonich)
> 14. Leather saddle repair (nick Bordo)
From: "brianbaylis@juno.com" <brianbaylis@juno.com>
To: roleti40@yahoo.com
CC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]Looking for Liotto info.
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:07:39 GMT
>Ron,
>
>I have a Liotto frame in my collection. It is probably from the early 70
>'s, but it is still in original paint and graphics. I don't know much ab
>out these frames either. I haven't built it up yet, so I don't know how
>it rides at this point. The workmanship is OK and typical of Italian fra
>mes of the period. The graphics appear to be a combination of a stencil
>and hand painted with a brush. Nothing particularly outstanding about th
>em that I can see; but a neat Italian bike, none the less.
>
>Brian
Baylis
>La Mesa, CA
>
>
>
>
>-- Ron Titensor <roleti40@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'm looking for information and/or photos of a late '70's ('78) Liotto.
> The Liotto, I am told, was hand built to order by Gino (or Tony) Liotto
> in Vicenza, Italy. Thanks.
>
>
> Ron Titensor
> Bellingham, WA
> USA
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>_______________________________________________
>
From: "Otis" <otis@otisrecords.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: [CR]Rim Decal Removal
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:10:02 -0800
>Assuming they are adhesive "stickers" and not water-slide decals. I would
>use a hair dryer or naphtha. You can buy a little squeeze bottle of Ronsonol
>lighter fluid (naphtha) which is handy for this type of work. Flood the
>sticker and keep it wet while removing it. Place the sticker on some wax
>paper until you are ready to reuse it. Photo-mount spray works well for
>this.
>
>Jon Williams
>Grants Pass OR USA
>
>
From: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
To: CR <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR]Interesting ebay auctions, one ending very soon
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
>I wish the man's frame were my size. If so, I would have bid
>and worried about pickup later... :-)
>
>Now, there are 2 things about the man's frame that really pique
>my interest:
>
>1) This lugless frame was built from Reynolds 753. It seems as
>though many 753 frames were brazed with brass filler rod,
>despite Reynolds' recommendations. But a fillet-brazed 753
>frame seems really unusual (and impressive) to me.
>
>2) The way "lugless construction" was expressed in
French:
>"sans raccord". Is "raccord" the proper word for Lug in
>French?
> Au revoir,
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
>
>--- The Maaslands <TheMaaslands@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Norris has written at length about the French builder Carré
> > and about
> > his enviable record of building bikes for the pros. Well, if
> > your
> > interest has ben tickled by all of these reports, you have
> > teh
> > opportunity today to buy not only one but a pair of Carré
> > bikes: a
> > man's and a woman's version, with the man's version even
> > being built out
> > of Reynolds 753. The auction ends in 4 hours from now, so do
> > check it
> > out ASAP:
>
>
> >
>http://ebay.com/<blah>
> >
> > The men's bike is lugless 56 cm frame and the woman's bike is
> > a lugged
> > 53 cm frame. Th eseller will even accept paypal,
> > unfortunately they
> > request that the bikes be picked up in person.
> >
> > In the following auction there is 1983 51 cm Masi Prestige
> > being sold
> > from Italy:
> >
> >
>http://ebay.com/<blah>
> >
> > This bike looks close to mint. I was under the impression
> > that this same
> > bike was offered previously and sold but am not able to find
> > back any
> > record about it. This auction ends in about 21 hours.
>
>
> > Again for lovers of French bikes there is a lovely Alex
> > Singer which I
> > believe is being sold by a CR list member. The bike is a 50
> > cm C/T frame
> > , so most definitely not for the taller rider. The bike does
> > however
> > have most of the fancy doo-dad accessories, so is worth a
> > look. The
> > auction ends in about 12 hours:
> >
> >
>http://ebay.com/<blah>
> >
> > Then an auction that I would like to point out for the
> > absolutely
> > artistic quality of the photos:
> >
> >
>http://ebay.com/<blah>
> >
> > This is not meant to downgrade the masters of bicycle
> >
photography like
> > Ray Dobbins, but these photos, taken in the fall foliage
> > simply speak to
> > me. I suppose it also helps that the bike is also near
> > perfect and a
> > real beauty too. It is a 55 cm C/T Eddy Merckx with Super
> > Record reduced
> > gruppo. You can also tell that the owner has put a lot of
> > thought into
> > the bike, even going so far as to match up rims for the
> > intended use,
> > with a Mavic GEL 280 front rim and a sturdier Mavic 330 rim
> > for the
> > rear: a bit like in the old days when they would fit a 40
> > spoke rear
> > wheel and a 32 spoke front. It is also cool to include a
> > musette bag, a
> > different size stem and super cool Eddy bar end plugs. If
> > only I could
> >
shrink a few inches...
> >
> > Steven Maasland
> > Moorestown, NJ
> > USA
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
From: "Charles Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: [CR]re: ebay outing: interesting colnago
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:26:16 -0700
>Sheesh. I was really wondering where this bike would end up...the 70s
>Colnago super with the unusual pantographing..but the auction was
>removed.
>
>120172171573
>
>Charles Andrews
>Los Angeles
>
From: Dan Craven <dngrusdan@verizon.net>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]Paris Sport markings
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:27:23 -0700 (PDT)
> Hi,
> I have been reading about Paris Sport bikes in the archives. I have a Paris Sport track bike from the mid seventies, that I am slowly refurbishing. It has some curious markings that I have seen no reference to. The initials LA are cut out of the fork crown, and there is a small oval stamped into the BB shell with the initials RGF inside. Does anyone know what they mean? I have seen where Dave Moulton has commented on the 'LA'. He said he does not know for sure but guessed it was the original customer's initials. Does anyone know differently?
>Dan Craven
>Albany,
NY
>
From: "John Pergolizzi" <jtperry1@sbcglobal.net>
To: <roleti40@yahoo.com>
CC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: RE: [CR]Looking for Liotto info.
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:51:40 -0700
>Ron,
>
> Why not go to the source:
>
>http://liotto.com/
>
>Has address and phone #.
>
>John T.Pergolizzi
>La Jolla, Ca.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-- Ron Titensor <roleti40@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'm looking for information and/or photos of a late '70's ('78) Liotto.
> The Liotto, I am told, was hand built to order by Gino (or Tony) Liotto
> in Vicenza, Italy. Thanks.
>
>
> Ron Titensor
> Bellingham, WA
> USA
>
>
>
>
From: "Feeken, Dirk" <dirk.feeken@sap.com>
To: "CR" <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: RE: [CR]Interesting ebay auctions, one ending very soon
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:50:31 +0200
>Steven Maaslands wrote:
>
> >In the following auction there is 1983 51 cm Masi Prestige being sold
> >from Italy:
>
> >
>http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> >This bike looks close to mint. I was under the impression that this
>same
> >bike was offered previously and sold but am not able to find back any
> >record about it. This auction ends in about 21 hours.
>
>You're right. Here is the original auction:
>http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
>
>Dirk
From: sandranian <sandranian@yahoo.com>
To: Rendezvous Classic <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: [CR]Pez L'Eroica story
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
>My apologies if this already was referenced, but Pez Cycling news wrote a nice story about L'Eroica, with lots of pictures.
>
> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/
>
> Stephan Andranian
> Costa Mesa, CA
> http://www.GitaneUSA.com
>
>
>
>_____________________________________
>
>This E-mail is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521 and is legally privileged. This information is confidential information and is intended only for the use of the
individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>
From: Stronglight49@aol.com
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
CC: dngrusdan@verizon.net
Subject: Re: [CR] Paris Sport Markings
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:59:52 EDT
>Hi Don,
>This is what Dave Moulton had once told me about the RGF markings on the BB
>one of my own bikes:
>
>
>" Bob,
>
>I'm pretty sure RGF bottom bracket shells were made in France. I used them
>on most of the frames I built in England through the 1970s, and bought them
>from Ron Kitching who imported them along with the Prugnat lugs.
>
>These BB shells were "Bulge Formed" which is an interesting process and I
>will explain.
>
>A steel tube with the diameter and wall
thickness of a bottom bracket shell
>is fed into a special machine. A mold clamps around the tube that has
>internal sockets that form the down tube, seat tube, and chainstay sockets. The ends
>of the tube are sealed and hydraulic oil is pumped inside. The pressure
>causes the steel to blow into the sockets like a bubble. The mold opens, the tube
>slides sideways to clear the mold and a saw cuts it off. The machine repeats
>whole process automatically. In a separate process the sealed ends of the
>sockets are machined off making the finished sockets for the tubes. Finally the
>BB shell is faced and threaded.
>
>I used these BB shells because they were the best available at that time. By
>the late 1970s
investment cast bottom brackets, which are far superior,
>became available. I'm sure the bulge forming process is still being used for
>lower end bikes.
>
>Dave Moulton,
>Framebuilder, Retired "
>
>
>
>BOB HANSON, ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, USA
>
>
>
>
>************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
From: "The Maaslands" <TheMaaslands@comcast.net>
To: "CR" <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: [CR]Re: Interesting ebay auctions, one ending very soon
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:12:15 -0400
>Dirk replied:
>
>"You're right. Here is the original auction:
>http://ebay.com/<blah>
>"
>
>to my earlier post about a Masi Prestige apparently being offered a
>second time:
>
>">In the following auction there is 1983 51 cm Masi Prestige being sold
> >from Italy:
> >
>http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> >This bike looks close to mint. I was under the impression that this
>same bike was
offered previously and sold but am not able to find back
>any
> >record about it. This auction ends in about 21 hours."
>
>Seeing that the first auction was 'won' by a fellow in China, it is
>quite conceivable that the seller was not able to ship the bike to
>China. If you look on the USPS website, it clearly states that one is
>not permitted to ship bikes to China due to import restrictions. I know
>this from personal experience when I went to ship a bike to a Japanese
>buyer who was working as a company director in China. It was simply not
>possible and I ended up shipping the bike to Japan instead. So I guess
>that the fact that the bike is being offered again should not raise any
>red flags.
>
>Then Fred wrote about the Carré bikes:
>
>"1) This lugless frame was built from Reynolds
753. It seems as though
>many 753 frames were brazed with brass filler rod, despite Reynolds'
>recommendations. But a fillet-brazed 753 frame seems really unusual
>(and impressive) to me.
>
>2) The way "lugless construction" was expressed in French: "sans
>raccord". Is "raccord" the proper word for Lug in French?"
>
>I too agree with you that a lugless 753 frame does seem to be quite
>unusual and impressive. The word 'Raccord' is indeed the French
>equivalent of 'Lug' or 'joint'. Sans raccord would translate as without
>lugs.
>
>
>Steven Maasland
>Moorestown, NJ
>USA
>
>
>
From: Jim Kadonaga <jkadonaga@ucsd.edu>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]FS: NOS Nuovo Record Brakeset and Crank Arms
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:05:53 -0700
>Dear CR listmembers,
>
>two Campagnolo vintage items for sale.
>
>C1. NOS (in box) Campagnolo Nuovo Record Brakeset. Excellent
>condition. World logo hoods on brake levers. Normal reach
>calipers. Domed quick release levers. Both brake center bolts are
>printed "PATENT". Older style "CAMPAGNOLO BREV." printing on the
>front panel of the cam (part #2005) of the quick release mechanism.
>Includes 1.8 mm brake cables (with the little <c> on the end) and
>grey housings. The
brake hoods are soft and pliable. Note, however,
>that there is a bit of a smudge (shopwear/'box-wear') on one side of
>each of the hoods - this can be seen in the photographs. [In
>addition, although I believe that the brake lever hoods are
>authentic Campagnolo hoods (as provided with the brakeset), I will
>not make a 100% guarantee with regard to their authenticity, because
>I am not the original owner.] This excellent and rare NOS brakeset
>would be an outstanding addition to a late 1970s or early 1980s
>vintage bike. [$310.00; includes USPS Priority Mail shipping in the
>USA.]
>
>C2. NOS Campagnolo Nuovo Record pre-1973 Crank Arms (165 mm). 144
>mm bolt circle diameter (BCD). For standard 9/16" x 20 tpi pedals.
>Excellent condition. Both arms are labelled "165 STRADA" with no
>date code. The left crank arm has a slightly smoother finish than
>the right crank arm (note that I obtained the right and left crank
>arms separately). In addition, both cranks arms had been previously
>fitted onto a bottom bracket spindle -- however, I suspect that this
>fitting is part of the manufacturing process of Campagnolo at that
>time. The threaded holes for the pedals appear to be unused.
>Pre-1973 Nuovo Record crank arms are hard to find nowadays --
>particularly in such nice NOS condition. [$225.00; includes USPS
>Priority Mail shipping in the USA.]
>
>Pictures can be seen at the following
website:
>
><http://picasaweb.google.com/OldSourdough/VintageParts>
>
>I accept payment by PayPal (jkadonaga@ucsd.edu).
>
>If you are interested in either of these items, please inquire about
>availability.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jim Kadonaga
>Del Mar, CA (and lucky to have avoided the wildfire)
>
From: larry chang <aam4w@yahoo.com>
To: Tom Dalton <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com>
CC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]Gilding the lilly/now KOF Rivendell Bleriot
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:19:37 -0700 (PDT)
>Tom,
>
>Without going too far OT, I appreciate your fairness re: Chinese-made bikes. No doubt, recent news about Chinese-made products hasn't helped public perception, and if some people are put off my European/American brands being made by hands other than those, so be it. No doubt, some will feel that the end has come if Campagnolo goes to China (if they haven't already).
>
>The question of authenticity is an old one. Is Chinese food made by non-Chinese any less Chinese? Princeton and Yale (my alma maters) modeled their
architecture and social structures after Oxford and Cambridge. Do people perceive these American schools as British wannabees or worthy schools in their own right?
>
>Back on-topic: Rivendells don't get discussed much here, and there is another group for that. However, I recently saw some of the prototypes for sale (called Protovelos) for the Bleriot, their only frame made in Taiwan. Though I'm not a frame builder, the brazing seemed so clean to me (these only have a clear powdercoat) that it looked like lug outlining (OK, I admit that I copped out and bought a regular Bleriot because I liked its color). Overall, I am impressed at the level of design and quality of this modestly-priced frameset and look forward to building it up. The only possible problem? Now that Grant has shown his Taiwan manufacturer how to make a decent frame, they might someday beat him at his own
game??!!
>
>Larry Chang
>Oakland, CA USA
>
>Tom Dalton <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com> wrote: Yea, Colnago learned their lesson; now they get their frames made in China!
>
>James Valiensi, Northridge California
>
> Really? I assume you're not talking about anything that's on topic, right? As for the newer stuff, this is the first I've heard of Chinese Colnagos, but then again, I'm hardly an industry insider. It's just odd that you see all those "Made in Italy" stickers, and none (that I've seen) with the "Made in China" stickers. Unlike Masi, the Colnago name is still associated with the man, and his factory in Italy. I'd be a little surprised if he was farming out frames to China, but if he is, there's no real reason to think that's a bad
thing. Consumers might not like that their bike was made outside of Italy, but that doesn't mean that it is by definition a lesser bike. My suspicion is that if, or when, Colnagos are being made in China it will be to lower the price on some of the less expensive bikes. Extreme C's from China seem unlikely, at this time, but you never know.
>
> So, I'm in a pickle, because on the one hand I want to say, "so what if they're made in China? That means nothing," and on other hand I'm inclinded to say, "I hope you have your facts right before you defame the brand," which suggests, in contradiction to the first comment, that Chinese manufacture is problematic. I guess it is because many people will perceive it as problematic that I don't wish to see this inforamtiuon put forth, unless you know it to be
accurate.
>
> Tom Dalton
> Bethlehem, PA USA
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around
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>
From: Mark Stonich <mark@bikesmithdesign.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: RE: [CR]Looking for Liotto info.
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:45:14 -0500
>
>>-- Ron Titensor <roleti40@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>I'm looking for information and/or photos of a late '70's ('78)
>>Liotto.
>> The Liotto, I am told, was hand built to order by Gino (or Tony)
>>Liotto
>> in Vicenza, Italy. Thanks.
>
>About 30(?) or so years ago there was a couple in the Lake Country
>Cyclists who had commissioned 3 Liottos while they had been in
>Italy. Two "Touring" bikes which turned out to be short coupled SL
>racing frames with eyelets for
racks. And a crazy light tandem that
>was very short, yet overly flexible. These were slender people but
>it was too squirmey for them. The bikes had been quite inexpensive,
>but that may have been in part due to the exchange rate at the time.
>
>They said that Liotto had been and old friend of Tullio's and that
>his shop was walking distance from the Campi factory. They said one
>reason he was selling at low cost was Tullio let him sort through
>the cosmetically flawed parts which he took and polished out the
>blemishes. IIRC the cranks and brakes didn't look like they had
>been anodized.
>
>
>Mark Stonich;
> BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
> 5349 Elliot Ave S. - Minneapolis. MN
55417
> Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
> http://mnhpva.org
>
From: nick Bordo <nicbordeaux@yahoo.fr>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]Leather saddle repair
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:57:06 +0200 (CEST)
>I have a nice alloy chassis Idéale leather sadle just turned up. Beautiful and desirable, apart from it's torn badly at the nose. Too torn I think to be repaired. If anybody knows tricks (I doubt it) to repair this one, that would be very helpful. As usual, you want to see pics of this item you get inflicted upon you http://membres.lycos.fr/
>
> It is a sad fact of life that very often, the very item you want most turns up, and there is one big problem with it: it's mauled in some way or other to the extent that it is unusable. That is the one side of
collecting I most definitely don't enjoy, it's much worse having a past repair dream item than never getting it in the first place.
>
> Nick March, Mont de Marsan, 40000 France
>
>
>---------------------------------
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