[CR]Re: Campy Ft der model question - was unusual early guerciotti on ebay

Example: Framebuilders:Dario Pegoretti

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:20:53 -0800 (PST)
From: randy dugan <rsdugan@yahoo.com>
To: Tom Dalton <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com>, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: [CR]Re: Campy Ft der model question - was unusual early guerciotti on ebay

good eye on that tom, i hadn't noticed the lip on the FD. i can't add to your line of reasoning; the finer points of campagnolo dating are beyond me but i appreciate your efforts on that front.

the more i look at this the more i think it's probably from '77 pr '78. a couple of guys wrote to me off-list to say as much, and i agree with them. if so, it must be among the last to use top tube clips, right? i have one that i assumed was from '79 or '80, with two sets of bottle bosses, short reach/recessed brakes, top tube guides, and portacatena holes - a much more pedestrian mix. not sure if this example changes my opinion on mine or not...

am i right that this has a long-reach rear and short reach front caliper? and also that one is nutted and one is not? also, what is that front ring - at first glance i thought it was a super record, but no... is it a modified nuovo record, or another brand? and is that stem from a later bike?

i now see it sold for $600, which still sounds like a bargain to me.

randy dugan
van nuys, ca usa

----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Dalton
To: rsdugan@yahoo.com; Classic Rendezvous
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:55:53 AM
Subject: Campy Ft der model question - was unusual early guerciotti on ebay

I have to agree with Randy that this Guerciotti is very appealing. The brand really lost it's luster in the mid-80's when TSDI was selling zillions of run-of-the-mill examples with IC parts and thick Imron. I really like that this example has the "new" short dropouts, but still lacks top tube braze-ons. I also like that "special" rear brake caliper.

Anyway, I hope someone can tell me if the front derailleur on this Guerciotti is actually a Record or if it is Nuovo Gran Sport. I've wondered for a long time if Campy ever made a CPSC-compliant Record ft. derailleur that had no holes. I had thought that the 4-hole front was the first CPSC-compliant Record front, and that the model on this Guerciotti was the first CPSC-compliant Gran Sport, but I've been wrong before... earlier today, in fact.

Catalog 17A shows all flat CPSC ft ders. The supplement to 17A is the first to show CPSC compliant fronts, and it includes the 4-hole front and the no-hole GS. But, when you consider that the supplement was supposedly issued in 1979, and the four-hole front was being promoted as "new" at the time, that leaves a year or two between this "new" derailleur and the 1977 (or so) CPSC changes). So, was the four-hole front earlier than the 1979 catalog date, or was there a CPSC compliant no-hole Record front that fell into the gap between 17A and the supplement? It is noteworthy that the supplement is the place where the short dropouts first appeared, and they were supposedly available long before 1979, so we know that the catalog is not up-to-the-minute. On the other hand, Campy didn't bother to issue an earlier supplement for the new CPSC BB, crank, ft der, brakes, hubs, etc. so they could easily have offered an uncataloged CPSC compliant no-hole Record ft der.

Another funny thing I noticed is that the Porta-Catena does not appear until the 17A supplement, and then only in clamp-on. By the next catalog (the Olympic catalog) the Porta Catena is gone. So, it showed up in only one catalog and then only in one of the two versions.

not mine, item number 120185969690. since it's a buy-it-now, i don't feel bad pointing it out to the group. i have a soft spot for these, and i think guerciottis of this era are pretty rare... the later pre-ten-speed-drive-imports graphics, but with clamp on cable guides and pre-portacatena dropouts and metallic root beer paint - about 1975-6 maybe? plus, this one has some unusual panto pieces and appears to be very complete and original. if it were a 58, it would be a done deal...


randy dugan van nuys, ca usa

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